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| Snowden, Edward | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 28 2013, 05:03 PM (725 Views) | |
| Pasta | Jun 28 2013, 05:03 PM Post #1 |
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Chief Engineer
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Probably no guessing where I sit on this one. His father is suggesting terms for ES to return to the US. BBC article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23100746 My oh my. Terms for his surrender - the father is proposing! I say f*** the little prick. He is a traitor. He had many other means to raise his issues to Congress. Instead he copied copious amounts of data, released it to the global media and perhaps sold same or more. Who is a 30 year old to decide how to deal with this issue? Unilaterally? Nonsense. Further I believe he designed his career path specifically for this purpose. The little self righteous prick has harmed his country and the safety of the world. He has also given ammunition to states far more predatory. Were he to be taken out, I would not shed a tear, and might just host a celebratory party. Treason is absolutely inexcusable. |
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| John | Jun 28 2013, 07:58 PM Post #2 |
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Team Boss
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Not a popular view I'm sure but I say Good Luck to him... as a non American I thank him for confirming what many have always feared... If America now has some difficult and embarrassing questions to answer with her supposed allies and with the international community at large then so be it... if is after all an embarrassment of their own making... Some say he has given ammunition to states far more predatory... but thanks to those revelations by, we now know that US telecoms and internet carriers routinely pass our data to the US government... Just like their Chinese equivalents... The US can no longer take the moral high ground and that is where they feel the most hurt... besides states far more predatory have never needed ammunition to attack the US, and again it was ammunition provide by the US... an own goal if you like. Yes, he could have raised it in a manner less embarrassing to the US administration but I'm guessing had he tried any other approach he would have been silenced and we would never have found out. I very much doubt he will evade capture for much longer... and he will finally feel the full wrath of his embarrassed administration... much to the enjoyment of some no doubt... but I still thank him for putting our right to know the truth above his own liberty. J. |
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| Pasta | Jun 28 2013, 08:40 PM Post #3 |
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Chief Engineer
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Holy Kit and Kaboodle. Your grasp of the purely superficial is both impressive and not surprising. "Well Done" you say. "Good Luck" you say. Thanks for informing the world of what it has known for decades. It is not a surprise to anyone the NSA's capabilities or practices. What I found interesting is the need for judicial permission to use. I guessed you missed that. The big beneficiaries of this debacle would include China. Probably not too much mileage here, and in the end China has state sponsored industrial and military espionage, which costs you and your relatives jobs, perhaps. What I find offensive is this flippant:
What a bunch of utter crap. He had a DUTY to pursue regular channels. He needed to EXHAUST such prescribed channels. He never made any effort whatsoever. He planned his career with premeditated intent to go public, in likelihood. And then he bolted to Hong Kong and went to the media. What an incredibly arrogant and egomaniacal person. Zero self perspective or self discipline. We have laws that we draft, contemplate, debate and legislate. In secular societies this is the best. The solidity and functional security of the whole world depends on the leadership of laws drafted in secular societies. Full stop. If you think that a criminally insane egomaniac punk tree hugging goofball does any good by doing what ES did, you need to re-evaluate your base values. He bypassed, at his sole discretion, the legal infrastructure that we, in majority, want. The harm he did was not the embarrassment of a government or an administration. He weakened our defenses and our protection. Or at least gave opportunities to enemies or would be abusers of our freedoms and openness. He is a criminal and a traitor. Full stop. Notwithstanding his criminal behavior, he actually did absolutely nothing of new revelation, in my view. Pretty much everything he disclosed I personally knew about, as should we all, for more than a decade. Good Luck to him?? Bullshit. Incarcerate him. Shoot the little prick. He represents the antithesis of everything we, as members of civilized society, have worked hundreds of years for. |
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| Pasta | Jun 28 2013, 08:53 PM Post #4 |
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Chief Engineer
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Further - who is this little criminal embracing now? The Chinese, the Venezuelans, the Cubans and the Ecuadorians. Speaking of the latter, one of the worst countries respecting human rights. Maybe about the bottom 40%ish. And he is applying on the basis he will be persecuted. Right. For breaking the law. Cool. Let Ecuador's roses rot then. So this beacon of light has foregone the United States (and Canada and Australia and the UK and Germany and France and etc.) and opted instead for Ecuador? And how, I wonder, will he provide for himself in Ecuador? Oh yes I forgot. He sold state secrets to the Chinese and Russians and Venezuelans and so forth. Maybe I am mistaken and all his air fares and accommodations were paid for by his personal savings. Sure. That is plausible. For sure his savings as a 30 year old will provide for him for another ten years whilst he settles in to Ecuadorian business. Yup. That makes sense. He sold out. |
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| John | Jun 28 2013, 09:06 PM Post #5 |
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Team Boss
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Well Done Mr Snowden... I salute your courage.
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| Pasta | Jun 28 2013, 09:18 PM Post #6 |
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Chief Engineer
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A hole. At least I was substantive in my arguments. You, in contrast, revert to smilies. What else when you don't have the ability to actually put forth anything of value. Not unexpected. You don't come close to understanding the issues. You are completely a light weight. P off. |
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| John | Jun 28 2013, 09:59 PM Post #7 |
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Team Boss
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Shall I I think................ Not ![]() |
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| Pasta | Jul 13 2013, 03:50 PM Post #8 |
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Chief Engineer
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I don't want to be inflammatory here, having entered into a truce with John. As such will try to be as matter-of-fact and non-personal as possible (for me anyway). The fall out from this issue is both expansive as well as a non-event, really. Every major nation in the world has been spying for centuries. They need to in order to protect their citizens. The Snowden revelations were not really revelations at all, and for a short while various countries will protest due to domestic political pressure, however that will blow away. Particularly as their own spying activities become known. Bolivia, Venezuela and what other country? Only Venezuela is worth living in, though I wish Venezuela would stop being so anti America. My friend is the Consul General of Venezuela in Hong Kong and next time I meet him I am going to put forth this request/suggestion. Bolivia. Good life there. Lots of good little donkeys to ride to the village. Not sure what would be worse. Banishment to Bolivia or life in a US prison. At least in US prison Mr. Snowden would have some sex. I suppose sex in Bolivia is also possible. Lots of donkeys there, I believe I have mentioned that. Ecuador will not grant asylum. It's economy will be ruined if it does and its el presidente has been understandably quiet these days. Those of us who remember the movie "Enemy of the State" (Will Smith, Gene Hackman) might be swayed by the Hollywood notion of abuses of power and invasion of our privacy. This isn't like that. Keep the following in mind: 1. There has not been one instance of any prosecutions for tax evasion, securities fraud, drug dealing, rape, murder, theft, or any other personal crime other than terrorism that has come about as a result of these spying/infringement activities. Not one. 2. Without a court order for any such information/evidence gathering, absolutely nothing generated by these spying/recording efforts can be used to prosecute any individual. Furthermore you can't use information so gained without a court order to get a court order. 3. A large number of terrorist plots have been foiled by such activities. 4. There is much more certainty amongst nations respecting what each of them are up to. This knowledge and certainty fosters better relations between nations. They know when each other are lying or telling the truth. 5. They all do it. 6. They share a lot of their information. The checks and balances in the US are as stringent as any in the world and more so than most. I remain convinced that Mr. Snowden should have sought other routes than going public. I personally consider him egomaniacal. He simply does not have the training, experience or authority to make the decision he did unilaterally. As to his biggest supporter - living in an Ecuadorial embassy - his protection is for what? Protection against rape charges. Mr. Assange is surely politically persecuted because who can believe the testimony of a woman rape victim. |
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8:57 AM Jul 11