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Schumacher's new job?
Topic Started: Nov 7 2012, 06:41 PM (692 Views)
Steelstallions
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John,Nov 9 2012
07:44 AM
LOL... that comment says far more about the shallow loyalty of the Tifosi than anything else.

<sick>

WTF are you on with John? The only loyalty is to the team. The drivers get loyalty when they race and respect when they leave.
That said MS was special, he had something more than that, a status of invincibility on the track and a Tifosi that hero worshipped him for what he did. What he achieved in the golden years will never be forgotten, but the mystique he had which Senna also had, is gone. These couple of years in the middle of the field and repeatedly getting into bother without gain on the track IMO have eroded his legacy. Other drivers don't give a fig when they overtake him, whereas 10 years ago just merely getting near his car was something to shout about if you were the likes of a midfield team like BAR etc.

For me he did something I did not think possible, it made me think about the other hero's of F1 and realise they were only good in their era.
I don't even bother thinking or posting about what a young Senna would have achieved in a modern F1 car. Those posts seem to have died out, possibly because seeing the return of MS, the truth is he would most likely be just good and nothing else. The antics Senna got away with in the 80's until his death would have got him banned from races and awash with other race day penalties.

So your shallow loyalty quote is misguided, his return has shattered a mystique and has diminished his iconic status. It has also let Tifosi concentrate on Alonso, whereas whilst MS was still there but not racing, no driver could live up to his status.

I wonder why he did it, I can only think of a man having a mid-life crisis, a man needing an affair to make him feel alive when its the last thing he should be doing.
Luca was close to getting a third car per team accepted, but if he had, MS would have still lost his iconic status, that's not shallow loyalty its a realisation that age is a bitch.

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John
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Quote:
 
that comment says far more about the shallow loyalty of the Tifosi than anything else.

... The only loyalty is to the team. The drivers get loyalty (only) when they race and respect when they leave.

If your comments are showing him respect I'd hate to see what you consider disrespect. <huh> Disparaging (for that is all you are doing) a former Scuderia driver is one thing... But we are not just talking of any former Scuderia driver here, or do you relegate Schumacher to simply a former driver?

SS
 
So your shallow loyalty quote is misguided, his return has shattered a mystique and has diminished his iconic status...

So just because he has struggled since returning to F1 after, may I remind you, 3 years away from the sport during which time he had not driven anything competitive and the sports rules have changed the cars drastically and not forgetting he was returning as one of the oldest drivers in recent history at a time when the sports fitness levels (which he himself had raised) now favours youth, is enough to diminish his iconic status by Tifosi after all he did for the team then their loyalty IS shallow.

This bitterness is aimed squarely at a driver totally unique in the whole history of the Scuderia, heck in the whole history of F1, indeed a dirver who, despite not driving for Ferrari for the last six years, has given the Tifosi an unprecented period of success with a tally of 72 wins (*32.8% of all Ferrari's wins), 5 consecutive WDC's (*33% of all their WDC titles) and 6 consecutive WCC's (*37.5% of their WCC titles). so claiming that you are just being loyal to the team has no substance.

If such views (as expressed above) are taken as typical of the Tifosi 'en masse, then they are quite frankly opprobrious and only exposes how very questionable their view of loyalty truly is...

However, I rather think that most Tifosi would still hold Michael Schumacher in much higher regard than you profess.

* Amazingly these percentages were higher still if taken at the time he last raced for Ferrari.
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Steelstallions
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John,Nov 9 2012
10:24 PM
But we are not just talking of any former Scuderia driver here, or do you relegate Schumacher to simply a former driver?

When he cut his ties and joined Mercedes he became a former driver. Sorry John I cannot do what you do and go totally gaga for a driver like your current beau Vettel. You have no team loyalty, your zealous and on occasion cult like loyalty is in the driver only.

I write on the Ferrari boards more than i write on here, most fans respect MS and they certainly enjoyed and miss the golden years. That loyalty was going to be a lifetime bond had he stayed retired. He decided that was not enough, so he suited up in Mercedes racing gear and went to drive for a rival team. What were the fans supposed to do, forget Ferrari and support Mercedes because he was there? or somehow support both?

Tifosi support the team then the driver. Regardless of any of the above, even if I was neutral, its plain as day MS has lost the iconic status he had with the below par results he has had with Mercedes.

Had Mike Tyson retired the day after he won his last defence of the title, everyone would still talk about how he could have beaten anyone in the ring, in the same way they talked about Rocky Marciano. Its hard to remember what presence Tyson had in his heyday when you've seen him beaten so many times by boxers in his last fights.
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John
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I do follow drivers and not teams that is for the most part true... however I did follow a team/manufacturer (BMW) for a decade between 2000 and 2009. And as a result I still support those drivers that drove for the team (*with two exceptions). Jenson started his career in a Williams BMW and despite only driving for that team one year ,over 12 years ago, he still gets my support today... I also support Heidfeld, Hulkenberg, Rosberg, Kubica and as you well know Vettel (even when he was driving against BMW.)

So I know it is possible to support a team and their former drivers... even if they go on to drive for other teams... indeed as a hardened BMW fan I would have never support Mercedes yet I am forced to cheer McLaren (Button) and Mercedes (Rosberg)... not their new teams but the ex BMW drivers. So this BS about only caring about the team dosent wash.

The way I see it once a BMW driver always a BMW driver... and if I supported Ferrari it would be once a Ferrari driver always a Ferrari driver... your SHALLOW display of loyalty is a disgrace to the name Tifosi.

* The exceptions mentioned above are Villeneuve and Webber. I supported both while they raced in the BMW cars but not after and not before simply because I don't like the guys... but if either of them had achieved for BMW even half of what Schumacher did for Ferrari I would fight thier corner even if they drove for other teams and overstayed their time in F1... that is being loyal to the team...
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Steelstallions
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John,Nov 9 2012
11:25 PM


The way I see it once a BMW driver always a BMW driver... and if I supported  Ferrari it would be once a Ferrari driver always a Ferrari driver... your SHALLOW display of loyalty is a disgrace to the name Tifosi.

And too often your FANBOY support of drivers is nauseating.

Even Enzo Ferrari himself told his son, Piero Ferrari, not to get too attached to drivers.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80694

Quote:
 
'You must never get too affectionate with racing drivers, because it either ends this way or they go race somewhere else. They are employees, even if very important ones.'"


Piero in 2009, more or less stated what i have said


Quote:
 
"It's true that we were a bit disappointed, because Michael had become our symbol," Ferrari told Gazzetta dello Sport.

"I wouldn't use that expression [betrayal], even though obviously we would have preferred him to stay with us. But he wanted to race and the conditions weren't there for him to do it once again with Ferrari."


Three years later he could elaborate on the part where he says "I never believe in comebacks in sport". MS joins a long line of ex champions who didn't recapture their past success, but unfortunately in the process of his overall dismal results, he diminished the aura he had when he was champion and still had during retirement.
Regardless of the car not being up to scratch and his three years out, these results since coming back and the way he easily accepted them, have eroded his iconic status. This may come back in a decade or so when these last three years are wiped from the memory and when TV channels do their history of F1 highlights and only his golden era is reported.

I have no more to say about it, I am sure anyone reading is already well bored of the subject.
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John
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Hey I'm not asking to not to be shallow, you carry on regardless as I'm sure you will <thumbsup>
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mikemagic
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John,Nov 9 2012
12:56 PM
<roflmao>

I wonder what this said before he edited it. <roflmao> <roflmao>
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mikemagic
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Steelstallions,Nov 9 2012
11:20 PM
When he cut his ties and joined Mercedes he became a former driver. Sorry John I cannot do what you do and go totally gaga for a driver like your current beau Vettel. You have no team loyalty, your zealous and on occasion cult like loyalty is in the driver only.


What's also interesting is that he seems to support the driver that is doing the best. A Schumacher fan during his glory years and now a Vettel fan. He's like Formula One version of a Man Utd fan! I'm not sure what John's agenda is but he's one of the big reasons why this place is dead.
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everythingoes
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I'm also sure that people who show up once in a while only to have a whinge, complain about something or the other, or make disparaging, personal remarks about other posters, have an equal, if not greater hand in it.
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everythingoes,Nov 12 2012
07:12 AM
I'm also sure that people who show up once in a while only to have a whinge, complain about something or the other, or make disparaging, personal remarks about other posters, have an equal, if not greater hand in it.

Yes because new members should be hounded off the site whilst John is immune from blame. Are you blind? I hesitate to side with him but Pasta was totally correct in his comments about you and certain others. No wonder this place can't atract any new blood.

You need to look at your existing problems and the people who have a free reign to say and do what they want. I even saw him having serious verbals with an admin (Norbert I think) but it's ok because it's John.

What a half arsed operation this is. Good day all.
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John
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mikemagic,Nov 11 2012
08:27 PM
What's also interesting is that he seems to support the driver that is doing the best. A Schumacher fan during his glory years and now a Vettel fan.

It is well documented my support for both drivers predate their success... I started following Schumacher in 1992 and Vettel (via BMW) in 2006. <thumbsup>

I have said before that I wish I was as lucky at picking lottery numbers :(
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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either some people like to follow winners, or know how to pick them. I guess you'd have to look at his record of betting on horses to know which one he was.

I generally tend to follow losers, which is why I don't bet ;)
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Pasta
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Might I also add my note?

I have stopped posting because of John, who I consider sarcastic and shallow and confrontational and oft not eloquent.

I did receive an email from Norbert about my comments presumably respecting John. I replied I would control myself but also asked the moderator to contact John as well.

Perhaps that was not done or, if done, was not noted.

I wonder if John will continue to react in a confrontational manner or if he will give pause to thought.

Personally I think he is not capable of the latter.
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Pasta
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mikemagic,Nov 12 2012
11:45 AM
everythingoes,Nov 12 2012
07:12 AM
I'm also sure that people who show up once in a while only to have a whinge, complain about something or the other, or make disparaging, personal remarks about other posters, have an equal, if not greater hand in it.

Yes because new members should be hounded off the site whilst John is immune from blame. Are you blind? I hesitate to side with him but Pasta was totally correct in his comments about you and certain others. No wonder this place can't atract any new blood.

You need to look at your existing problems and the people who have a free reign to say and do what they want. I even saw him having serious verbals with an admin (Norbert I think) but it's ok because it's John.

What a half arsed operation this is. Good day all.

Mike, you are not always the most likeable, but you are ok. You have your loyalties and opinions and you are at least clear in them.

You are not sarcastic. You do not pretend to be smarter than the rest.

I agree with you on John.

I would not say he is the only reason why this forum has degenerated into a small chat forum for a few, but he is, in my opinion, a reason people could turn off this forum.

There is way too much fluff here. Instead of a few thoughtful threads, we have so many silly topics, with a few people simply chatting back and forth. Perhaps they could exchange personal email addresses.

It does tend to degrade the forum.

Honestly I have no use for John. Apparently I am not allowed to criticize him or use language that really reflects my opinions.

It is nice to know, however, that I am not alone.

Cheers
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Pasta
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everythingoes,Nov 12 2012
07:12 AM
I'm also sure that people who show up once in a while only to have a whinge, complain about something or the other, or make disparaging, personal remarks about other posters, have an equal, if not greater hand in it.

Fair comment, though ....

I have said enough already.
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