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| Lance Armstrong, Guilty or Not Guilty? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 24 2012, 08:47 AM (723 Views) | |
| Steelstallions | Aug 24 2012, 08:47 AM Post #1 |
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-21...nce-titles.html
I don't follow the sport, but he is a retired champion and passed the doping tests during his career. Smacks of politics to start pursuing him now when there are so many active athletes that should be looked at. Maybe its the F1 mentality, but can you imagine testing all F1 cars back to when it started and changing results from decades ago? IMO he won the races, let history stay as it is especially when he was racing a field of performance enhanced doped up cyclist most years. |
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| Norbert | Aug 24 2012, 09:52 AM Post #2 |
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It's rather like all the Chinese athletes and their amazing Olympic performances. You can't help thinking they're up to something, but if they pass the tests, there's not really a lot to be said, unless you keep the 'B' samples for donkey's year and retest using better methods... |
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| Pasta | Aug 25 2012, 03:42 AM Post #3 |
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Chief Engineer
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I read two very good articles on this subject yesterday. I was going to post them in this forum but went to the club and had fun instead. Now I can't find them, but will keep looking. One was Lance Armstrong's full speech on his assessment of the USADA actions and potential motivations of their witnesses, which is really all they have. His speech was very compelling and very clear. It is in no way an admission of guilt but rather a refuting of the authority of the USADA to strip him of his titles or even cause this investigation. The statements by the USADA that his refusal to go to arbitration is an admission of guilt "...and there is no other way to interpret his actions." is offensive. In fact the UCI itself is calling the USADA plans to strip Armstrong of his TdeF titles is ultra vires. The UCI is highly critical of the USADA actions and motives and arrogance. Armstrong has been tested hundreds of times during his career during competitions of course and other times including surprise tests. He has passed every single one of those tests. To me the actions of the USADA are libelous but, I am confident they have protection against claims for damages. This is similar to many regulatory bodies especially securities commissions. Hold your hand up if you have ever been the subject or aware of regulatory witch hunts. My hand is up. The sick part is the USADA is doing this for glory, not for legitimate reasons. They are hunting down a very decent human being and damaging a lot of good things like his cancer foundation. And they are doing it all on taxpayer money. Is this the government's idea of job creation/preservation? Here is another article: http://ph.sports.yahoo.com/news/cyclist-ar...-024859941.html |
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| Pasta | Aug 25 2012, 03:44 AM Post #4 |
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Chief Engineer
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I found it. The link to the speech and the speech http://sports.yahoo.com/news/lance-armstro...32112--spt.html
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| Steelstallions | Aug 25 2012, 09:07 AM Post #5 |
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After reading that Pasta, Lance IMO is a victim of politics. |
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| Pasta | Aug 25 2012, 09:59 AM Post #6 |
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Chief Engineer
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He is a bloody decent human being who has turned his hard work and fame into something that benefits a whole lot of needy people. This Travis Tygart is not fit to carry Lance's luggage. What is nice is the huge support pouring in for Lance. Donations up and all his sponsors are forcefully stating they are behind him all the way. This includes Nike. Nice to see. |
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| PiquetFan | Aug 25 2012, 02:33 PM Post #7 |
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When I heard the news that he had decided not to contest the doping allegations I was certain that this meant he was guilty as sin. Thanks for posting the statement Pasta, it gives miuch food for thought. Some of the sports journalists should be ashamed of the manner in which they are reporting this development - very few of them have given a balanced account. |
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| Nomad | Aug 25 2012, 02:50 PM Post #8 |
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Engineer
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I have and will support Armstrong!!! I have believed from the start that this was a politically motivated witch hunt and I applaud Armstrong's decision to tell them that he refuses to play their game. (Remember reading "Atlas Shrugged"?) I also remember from my years in government service that no matter how valid the reason for creating a new bureacracy; they soon realize that their real goal is to grow and control as much as they can, any way that they can. The best way to increase their power is to destroy a major target. I sincerely hope that the international authorities tell them to get stuffed. |
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| Jack | Aug 25 2012, 03:30 PM Post #9 |
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Chief Engineer
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If Lance passed more than 500 tests without problems, where are the evidences? Based on what have USADA declared him guilty?
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| Pasta | Aug 25 2012, 04:12 PM Post #10 |
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Chief Engineer
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I sent the following content in an email to my extended list of contacts. One of them is a former officer of enforcement at the SEC. Maybe the members can pass this on as well. There has been a lot of press coverage lately about the USADA stripping Lance Armstrong of his 7 tour de France titles and banning him for life from competition. This has the sound of something very official and on the face of it makes it look like Lance Armstrong is guilty as charged. USADA officials have stated his refusal to participate in their arbitration was admission of guilt and "there is no other possible interpretation". They say they have evidence. In fact what they have is a lot of testimony from people who were themselves proven guilty and have received lesser penalties in exchange for testimony against Armstrong. Some are even allowed to continue competing in exchange for their testimony. What they are ignoring are the hundreds of tests that internationally are recognized as being definitive and authoritative and that Lance Armstrong has passed with no exception over a decade. Unless you have been involved in these bizarre investigations by regulatory authorities, you cannot believe how single purposed and warped regulators can be in their pursuit not of justice, but rather of individuals and self promotion. I have seen it a number of times and it is always ugly. What is really annoying is that these regulators use taxpayer money to hound people, causing often innocent people to spend huge amounts of money defending themselves again and again. You can never win, as they simply regroup and come back at you again. Millions and millions of dollars can be wasted on one case. What makes it worse, these regulators are protected by law even if you can prove negligence or fraud on their part. Furthermore, most law makes it criminal to discuss publicly or otherwise disclose details of regulatory proceedings. For example in Hong Kong respecting securities law disclosure of anything about an investigation or tribunal is punishable by either 1 year in jail and/or HK$2million, or 2 years in jail and/or HK$1million. One of the two. I personally once saw a printed statement by the SFC in Hong Kong where its staff alleged that a financial adviser should have his/her license revoked because he/she withheld information, as evidenced by a line in his/her letter to them. The line they referred to? "Should you have any questions or require additional information please do not hesitate to contact me." I kid you not and that was under the rule of Mark Dickens, then head of enforcement. This is strictly to protect the bureaucrats because if we can tell the public exactly how stupid and evil some processes and regulators can be, the public would be outraged. The ill intent, the waste of our money, the waste of time and the deceit. What is even worse is that there are many regulators that are good and decent. The whole integrity of their bodies is undermined by the excesses of a few. In any case, I present below the statement made by Lance Armstrong. It speaks for itself. You compare that with the press and the statements by the USADA. You decide. Me, I am with Lance all the way and I hope everyone passes this on. This kind of witch hunt is so very common and should be exposed. Lance Armstrong's statement: Statement issued Thursday night by seven-time Tour de France winner Lance Armstrong: ''There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, ''Enough is enough.'' For me, that time is now. ........ |
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| Pasta | Aug 25 2012, 04:27 PM Post #11 |
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Chief Engineer
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I want to address another issue: How could the USADA secure the testimony from so many other people? It started with one. That person shopped others and the band played on. Each of these people are presented with an option: 1. Fight and be prepared to spend millions. Furthermore guess what we have sworn testimony against you and not only will we bankrupt you, but we will get you on obstruction of justice, perjury and other. You can go to jail. OR 2. Cop a plea, take a rap and be done with it. Maybe we even let you race again. In two years your medical practise can be resurrected. Lots of weight lifters and body builders out there. |
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| Pasta | Aug 25 2012, 04:55 PM Post #12 |
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Having computer problems. To continue.... I want to address another issue: How could the USADA secure the testimony from so many other people? It started with one. That person shopped others and the band played on. Each of these people are presented with an option: 1. Fight and be prepared to spend millions. Furthermore guess what we have sworn testimony against you and not only will we bankrupt you, but we will get you on obstruction of justice, perjury and other. You can go to jail. Based on the testimony of first one, then another, then another. Your word against five others and you will be convicted of perjury. OR 2. Cop a plea, take a rap and be done with it. Maybe we even let you race again. In two years your medical practise can be resurrected. Lots of weight lifters and body builders out there. Not all of these people have Nike willing to pay their legal fees and nor do they have massive endorsement income. To fight will bankrupt them and destroy them. So the cave in, take a rap and be done with it, and then testify against pretty much anybody else the USADA tells them to. When the USADA says it has ten or more people who have testified or agreed to testify against Lance, and have other previous admissions of guilt (all designed to paint a picture that everyone is guilty) that looks pretty damning. I wouldn't enter that den if I were Lance and neither would any sane person. I suspect there are a lot of people not fighting simply because of the financial burden and threats. This happens far too regularly. I know one bizarre case where a securities commission broke so many laws and abused its power so much for a case (including an office raid with 20 employees and police) netted nothing. (They were looking for cash, as they alleged the company was illegally selling securities for cash, as they were told there was a CASH report. Call Accounting and Support H.... It was a phone monitoring software - The British Columbia Securities Commission) Absolutely nothing wrong was ever committed by this company, but 40 people lost their jobs, and my friend spent about $2.5million defending himself and his employees. The BCSC threatened to destroy his employees and his brother unless he admitted to something. This was, after all, incredibly embarrassing to the BCSC. So he did and paid a $250,000 fine. Disgusting and true. It happens all the time. Anyone ever going through these processes knows how much it costs. It is always better to give them something even if it is not true and you did nothing wrong. |
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| everythingoes | Oct 12 2012, 11:47 AM Post #13 |
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The Usada report on Lance Armstrong is shocking & compelling. Its describes in detail how he and his team doped and dodged the drug tests. It shatters the reputation of one of the greatest athletes in recent times. The BBC Story Link to the Report You need to select the Tab labelled 'Reasoned Decision' and download the pdf report. |
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| Pasta | Oct 17 2012, 11:51 AM Post #14 |
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Now some may consider me a racist or bigot. Gosh and a big PO esp to the person from India. I expected more from you, and I never thought you were an idiot, until recently. Now on to Lance. This is horrible. Most people gave Lance the benefit of the doubt. There is now a massive charitable foundation at risk. Lance is toast. And then you get caught. The big thing for me was Lance's statement about why he wasn't going to deal with the issue anymore. I thought he was sincere. I have dealt with aggressive bureacrats before and I believed him. What Lance doesn't get is that millions and millions of people were willing to back him and believe in him. He lied. What a shit. I am trying to wrap my head around this thing. As much harm it will do for cancer victims, Lance should be put in jail. God I hate to say it, but I believe it. Lance betrayed everyone. He should go to jail. |
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| Pasta | Oct 17 2012, 05:21 PM Post #15 |
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Chief Engineer
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Nike has dropped Lance. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19978608 Further, Lance is stepping down from the boards of his charities. I hate liars. Lance now deserves the full penalties of the law. Not because he cheated, but because he was so vociferous in his denials. However horrible this is, somehow I look for the good to come out of it. |
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