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A question to our rules book champions on here
Topic Started: Jul 28 2011, 04:54 AM (412 Views)
Steelstallions
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Correct me if I am wrong under the current Resource Restriction Agreement agreed by FOTA, time spent on wind tunnel research and CFD is limited, (and here is the question) but not on the simulator Ferrari have built?

Can they can run as many virtual laps as they like 24/7, then merely tweak their design using the restricted time that they can balance between CFD to wind tunnel time.

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Steelstallions
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Are all our tech guys on holiday? If the simulator can be used 24/7, is the data of much use once a few laps have been done any way?
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Rob
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Didn't want you to feel slighted, but I really have no idea.
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Pasta
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Steelstallions,Jul 29 2011
05:43 AM
Are all our tech guys on holiday?

I think all the techies at a bbq pool party.
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Lord Tau
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I don't know the answer to your question, SS, but I found this in the F1 rulebook (not wanting to divert the topic away, but thought I'd share):

Quote:
 
22.1 Track testing shall be considered any track running time not part of an Event undertaken by a competitor entered in the Championship, using cars which conform substantially with the 2010, 2011 or 2012 Formula One Technical Regulations, with the exception of promotional events carried out using tyres provided specifically for this purpose by the appointed supplier.
22.2 No competitor may carry out more than 15,000km of track testing during a calendar year.
22.3 No track testing may take place :
a) Whilst a Championship Event is taking place.
b) During the month of August except under c) iii) below.
c) Between the start of the week preceding the first Event of the Championship and 31 December of the same year with the following exceptions :
i) One three day young driver training test, carried out on a site approved by the FIA for Formula 1 cars either, between the end of the last Event of the Championship and 31 December of the same year or, at any other time during the Championship season following the agreement of all competitors and the FIA. No driver who has competed in more than two F1 World Championship races may take part in this test and all drivers must be in possession of an International A Licence.
ii) Four one day aerodynamic tests carried out on FIA approved straight line or constant radius sites between 1 January 2012 and the end of the last Event of the Championship. Any of these days may be substituted for four hours of wind-on full scale wind tunnel testing to be carried out in a single twenty four hour period.
iii) If a team declares that one of its current race drivers is to be substituted by a driver who has not participated in an F1 race in the two previous calendar years, one day of track testing will be permitted between the start of the week preceding second Event and the last Event of the Championship. The following must be observed :
- Any such day may only be carried out by the new driver and may not take place on a circuit hosting a race in the current Championship year.
- Any such day may only take place within a period 14 days prior to the substitution and 14 days after the substitution has taken place.
- If a team, having declared the driver's substitution and performed the test, does not then enter an Event with the new driver, the team will be penalised by a reduction of one day from the pre-season track testing days available in the following year.


This means, if my understanding is correct, the following scenario could play out:

1. Team 1 is trailing Team 2 in the championship with a couple of races left. They've got some new widgets for their car, but are unable to test them due to the testing restrictions.
2. Team 1 then announces they will run Driver A to replace Driver B in their lineup for the next GP. Driver A has never raced in F1 before.
3. The team then uses Driver A to test these new widgets.
4. The team then make the upgrades to their car.
5. The team then announce that Driver A will not be replacing Driver B after all. They are penalised with one day less of testing for the following year.
6. But with the new widgets, Team 1 wins the title.
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Steelstallions
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Thanks for the replies, I don't feel slighted, just a little sad not as many are on here as used to be
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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Steelstallions,Jul 29 2011
04:25 PM
Thanks for the replies, I don't feel slighted, just a little sad not as many are on here as used to be

I think it's that people are more afraid to respond for fear of being 'stripped' down a peg or two than anything.

I don't what to say half the time without being metaphorically killed in the balls.
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Steelstallions
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TheCompleteGuitarist,Jul 29 2011
05:18 PM
Steelstallions,Jul 29 2011
04:25 PM
Thanks for the replies, I don't feel slighted, just a little sad not as many are on here as used to be

I think it's that people are more afraid to respond for fear of being 'stripped' down a peg or two than anything.

I don't what to say half the time without being metaphorically killed in the balls.

Sorry you have been made to feel that way on posts. When it gets to hard core physics and mechanics of F1 cars, as was the case on a fellow forum, I could not join in either as it was way above my head and I felt daft even fielding a question.

With this question though I thought it would be more straight forward for those that know how to digest the rules better.
I posed the question on another forum and the answers without any rule quotes was that the simulator has no limit but the information is not that useful. Which seems odd when a team spent 6 years of resources and who knows how many millions designing it and building it and running it on enough computer power to get a man to mars and build an F1 circuit on it.

IMO I think now Ferrari have calibrated the data from reality to wind tunnel and virtual car, its their platform for the future whilst real track testing is limited.

With F1 going to sky and my reluctance to pay the additional money for a sports package I have no other interest in, the only thing I will be seeing when F1 is on, is the rear of my lawn mower as i push it over the not so long grass!!!
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Brave_Lee_Flea
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I'm not afraid to stick my head up out of the trench but I'm afraid I didn't know the answer.

It is a shame if people have been made to feel they can't risk answering for fear of being killed in the balls.

I'm not actually sure hat being killed in the balls is, perhaps it's like a vasectomy or a metaphorical pair of bricks, but in any case it doesn't sound great.

;-)


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P1
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Steelstallions,Jul 28 2011
06:54 AM
Correct me if I am wrong under the current Resource Restriction Agreement agreed by FOTA, time spent on wind tunnel research and CFD is limited, (and here is the question) but not on the simulator Ferrari have built?

Can they can run as many virtual laps as they like 24/7, then merely tweak their design using the restricted time that they can balance between CFD to wind tunnel time.

Correct Steelstallions, both testing time in the windtunnel and the CFD system is limited. Every 8 weeks each team has to report how much (processor-) time they spent in both. Recall from a recent interview with Nick Wirth from Virgin Racing that F1 rules limit the use of CFD to no more than 40 teraflops on average over the eight-week period. This is formulated under F1’s stringent resource restriction agreement (the RRA).

From where do you have the idea that Ferrari can spend unlimited time 24/7 in their simulator?
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Steelstallions
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P-One,Jul 30 2011
08:55 AM
Steelstallions,Jul 28 2011
06:54 AM
Correct me if I am wrong under the current Resource Restriction Agreement agreed by FOTA, time spent on wind tunnel research and CFD is limited, (and here is the question) but not on the simulator Ferrari have built?

Can they can run as many virtual laps as they like 24/7, then merely tweak their design using the restricted time that they can balance between CFD to wind tunnel time.


From where do you have the idea that Ferrari can spend unlimited time 24/7 in their simulator?

It was an opinion on another forum without the rules being quoted, but sounded convincing enough to put forward the question.
But looking at your post, if (processor-) time is measured it would seem odd the simulator does not come under this rule too.

<think>
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P1
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Steelstallions,Jul 30 2011
05:17 PM
P-One,Jul 30 2011
08:55 AM
Steelstallions,Jul 28 2011
06:54 AM
Correct me if I am wrong under the current Resource Restriction Agreement agreed by FOTA, time spent on wind tunnel research and CFD is limited, (and here is the question) but not on the simulator Ferrari have built?

Can they can run as many virtual laps as they like 24/7, then merely tweak their design using the restricted time that they can balance between CFD to wind tunnel time.


From where do you have the idea that Ferrari can spend unlimited time 24/7 in their simulator?

It was an opinion on another forum without the rules being quoted, but sounded convincing enough to put forward the question.
But looking at your post, if (processor-) time is measured it would seem odd the simulator does not come under this rule too.

<think>

Maybe it was a reference to the gadget simulator most teams have for e.g. the drivers to get used to racing on a new track before even its built? Simulating wet conditions, tyre degration etc? You know, like the one we all have a copy of at home with 3 pedals on the carpet in front of the PC monitor.

You have several articles online about when Ferrari started their latest version of this. Granted, its a bit more than our 3 pedal model on the carpet... ;)
Ferraris F1 Simulator Described

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