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| Just curious but what number will MS's car be? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 17 2010, 10:40 PM (1,636 Views) | |
| AndyW76 | Jan 22 2010, 10:03 AM Post #61 |
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Team Boss
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Lets put it this way, disregarding the usual "thou shalt not criticise the great one" comments that arise from certain people, Schumacher's only rival for the championship at the time was rubens, and both Ferrari drivers had a commanding lead in the championship, therefore a situation like 1999 could not have occured. if Schumacher had had an accident that rendered him out of the season for a significant stretch. Ferrari still pretty much had a stranglehold on the championship. As I have said before, I have no problem with team orders, just they way they are implemented. After Austria 2002, the FIA (sort of) outlawed team orders, which spoilt the whole game for everyone. |
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| AndyW76 | Jan 22 2010, 10:13 AM Post #62 |
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Team Boss
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John, lets face it, you and me will never agree on this one. The fact is that Ferrari got rumbled about how they were treating RB and, may be RB shouldn't have reacted so overtly, but by rights he deserved that win and I am glad that he proved his point. You may think that the win was necessary for schumacher but his lead was so commanding in the championship that I really don't believe that there could have been any other contender except for his own team mate. Remember that he had double the points of his nearest rival (JPM, not RB as I accidentally stated before). The 2002 ferrari was the best car by a significant margin, allied to the fact that the bridgestones were pretty much taylored to the car. Anyway, you know my stance on team orders. My issue is with the way in which it was done (i.e. suddenly realising that with 10 laps to go, MS couldn't catch RB and then ordering RB to slow down or be sacked). I suspect that your true feelings of distaste towards RB on this matter are due to the fact that he dared to question the Schumacher/Ferrari ethos of only allowing Schumacher to win. |
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| GordonB | Jan 22 2010, 10:40 AM Post #63 |
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Chief Engineer
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It's just not John you'll not agree with - I think there's a large number of people in the world who can look past your 20-20 hindsight. - Yes Schumi was in a dominant position points-wise but this was with two-thirds of a championship to go. Ferrari had NO WAY OF KNOWING that they would be dominant for the entire season. - What they did (i.e. order their drivers to swap places) was NOT ILLEGAL. It was an accepted part of the way that races were run and had happened many times previously. - Who cares that they were "rumbled over how they were treating RB" - what planet does that come from? He had a contract which he willingly signed, which said that he had to do what the team said. In return the team paid him millons of dollars. Your last sentence about the 2002 car and the tyres is a statement which can only be made AFTER the season is complete. You only need to look at Brawn last year to see the validity of this point. The simple fact is that you, and all the other people who continually harp on about it, just didn't like it - for whatever reason. I'm not saying that you have to like it, but don't dress up your arguments with pseudo justifications, and words like "deserved" and try and make out that Ferrari or Schumacher were somehow in the wrong. Just say "I really didn't like it" and move on for goodness sake. |
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| John | Jan 22 2010, 10:41 AM Post #64 |
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How on earth do you arrive at that erroneous conclusion... The FACTS that I gave in my response earlier clearly show that up to that race Schumacher had four 1st and one 3rd giving him 44 points and the lead in the standings, by contrast Rubens having suffered four DNF's and a single 2nd place (behind Schumacher) and had 4 points. To say going into the sixth race that Rubens was Schumacher's 'ONLY' championship rival is frankly ludicrous... it completely ignores the results and standings of the two Williams drivers, Montoya on 23 points and Ralf on 20 points... heck even Jenson had twice as many points as Rubens going into the 6th race. One again your whole argument hangs on knowing how the season ended and not on how the season had gone up to the point the decision was taken. |
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| John | Jan 22 2010, 10:47 AM Post #65 |
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Don't be daft... my objection was how tat idiot decided to forget he was employed to do a job... decided he would play silly buggers and create a situation that muddied the waters over what was up until then normal legitimate practice. If I have said this one, I have said it a thousand times... IF he was so aggrieved and upset at the situation at Ferrari why did a) see out his current contract with the team and b) resign for another two yeas after that. Austria's farce is 100% completely laid at the clay feet of Rubens.... FACT |
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| AndyW76 | Jan 22 2010, 10:54 AM Post #66 |
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I think you have got me wrong there. It is not the fact that team orders were used, it was the manner in which they were done. RB obviously expected to be allowed to win on merit and did not expect to be ordered to slow, otherwise he would not have kicked off in the way he did. That, to me, suggests that Ferrari were not 100% honest with Rubens when they signed him. Lets not forget how much people used to (and occasionally still do) harp on how "evil" McLaren were/are because they ordered DC to let Mika win at Jerez 97 or Oz 98 (despite that being rumoured to be between the drivers alone). How come it is that when McLaren do it, they are "awful race fixers" yet when Ferrari do it, it is business as usual? Like I said, if Ferrari wanted RB to be a No. 2, ceeding to Schumacher where ever possible, then fine by me, but at least let the No. 2 driver know before the event instead of threatening them at the time (though I suppose a similar accusation can be levelled at McLaren over Jerez 97, though DC did hush this up for 10 years, which is a tiny bit suspect). |
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| SaveOurSilverstone | Jan 22 2010, 10:57 AM Post #67 |
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Chief Engineer
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perhaps a poll would find out what people think.. no comments allowed, just choose your opinon... |
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| AndyW76 | Jan 22 2010, 11:00 AM Post #68 |
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As I said above, I completely disagree. It was evident that RB was not warned that this case might occur, hence his reaction. The lack of honesty between Ferrari and Rubens makes his reaction quite understandable. I seem to remember that, when RB signed for Ferrari, a lot of noise was made about the fact that his contract did not include the imphamous "Irvine clause" (where it was Irvine was contracturally obliged to let MS by). |
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| John | Jan 22 2010, 11:01 AM Post #69 |
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Team Boss
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It invovled FERRARI and SCHUMACHER... IMVHO... such a poll on here was be as useful as a broken pencil... POINTLESS |
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| AndyW76 | Jan 22 2010, 11:01 AM Post #70 |
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That would be too sensible.
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| John | Jan 22 2010, 11:02 AM Post #71 |
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does a bear crap in the woods...
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| AndyW76 | Jan 22 2010, 11:03 AM Post #72 |
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I think you are getting me confused with someone else. Remember 93 where Hill had to allow Prost to win much of the time.It didn't go down well with the fans but at least it was done subtlely and Williams properly informed Hill of his role in the team. |
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| AndyW76 | Jan 22 2010, 11:05 AM Post #73 |
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Why do I even bother? Obviously, you don't take my arguement as genuine. |
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| John | Jan 22 2010, 11:06 AM Post #74 |
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YOU were not mentioned in my post so how I confused YOU with someone else is beyond me...
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| John | Jan 22 2010, 11:08 AM Post #75 |
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I believe that you believe in what you are saying... I just don't believe that what you are saying is right. |
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