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Just curious but what number will MS's car be?
Topic Started: Jan 17 2010, 10:40 PM (1,637 Views)
AndyW76
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Rob,Jan 21 2010
04:59 PM
AndyW76,Jan 21 2010
10:58 AM
Rob,Jan 21 2010
04:54 PM
AndyW76,Jan 21 2010
10:39 AM
Tell that to Piquet and Herbert.

<think>

OK, neither were a championship threat but both had potential to take points off him.

Not quite sure how you arrived at the conclusion they were ousted. Piquet retired after the 91 season, where he only has 4 races against Shumi, and even then would Flavio really give a relative rookie power to choose his teammate?

Herbert and Shumi only raced together in 95, and Shumi was on his way to Ferrari then. And I cannot really believe Shumi would have considered a driver he more than doubled in points a threat.

I guess Johnny wasn't ousted as such but his treatment by the team wasn't always up to scratch.

Fair enough, I can see where a driver would get bothered by that, but I don't think less than equal treatment at Benetton ruined his F1 career.

Lets be fair, Johnny was very lucky to have a racing career at all after his accident at Brands. His injuries did hold him back somewhat. It is just a shame thathe didn't get a better crack of the whip at Benetton, though he did get a couple of wins (notably both times when Hill and Schumacher decided to play dodgems)
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Red Andy
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Well, Benetton was Johnny's one and only shot in a top team. Whether that would have been different had he been treated differently by the team, we'll never know. But I doubt he would have been anywhere near Schumacher's pace regardless.
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Rob
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AndyW76,Jan 21 2010
11:09 AM
Rob,Jan 21 2010
04:59 PM
AndyW76,Jan 21 2010
10:58 AM
Rob,Jan 21 2010
04:54 PM
AndyW76,Jan 21 2010
10:39 AM
Tell that to Piquet and Herbert.

<think>

OK, neither were a championship threat but both had potential to take points off him.

Not quite sure how you arrived at the conclusion they were ousted. Piquet retired after the 91 season, where he only has 4 races against Shumi, and even then would Flavio really give a relative rookie power to choose his teammate?

Herbert and Shumi only raced together in 95, and Shumi was on his way to Ferrari then. And I cannot really believe Shumi would have considered a driver he more than doubled in points a threat.

I guess Johnny wasn't ousted as such but his treatment by the team wasn't always up to scratch.

Fair enough, I can see where a driver would get bothered by that, but I don't think less than equal treatment at Benetton ruined his F1 career.

Lets be fair, Johnny was very lucky to have a racing career at all after his accident at Brands. His injuries did hold him back somewhat. It is just a shame thathe didn't get a better crack of the whip at Benetton, though he did get a couple of wins (notably both times when Hill and Schumacher decided to play dodgems)

The crash very well could have hurt his career, but F1 is a cold hard world. You get results or you get out, there is no prize for would have been a champ except...

This is nothing against Herbert, but he never had a chance against Shumi, I cannot see why Shumi would want to have him ousted.
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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Irvine and Rubens were the lapdogs he preferred to Brundle and Herbert. I'm not saying either were WDC material or better than MS, but certainly not treated well by the team at what might be considered MS bequest. Certainly feisty capable and technical drivers more threatening to MS.
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Red Andy
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To be fair I don't think Brundle has ever complained that he received anything other than equal treatment while at Benetton. Indeed he was poised to beat Michael on a few occasions (including taking the team's first win of the year at Montreal) but luck always seemed to go against him.
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Norbert
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AndyW76,Jan 21 2010
05:06 PM
If a win at the Austrian GP in 2002 had been necessary to MS's title charge, I would have had no problem with it.

How could they know at the time that it wouldn't? We all know now that it was utterly unnecessary as Ferrari were mighty for the whole year. However, what if they had done a Brawn? Suppose that McLaren or Williams had come back, and eventually he lost by a single point in the last race of the year because he came second in Austria rather than first? As far as I'm concerned, if your policy is that one driver is required to score max points in every race, and that his teammate concedes his position if it is possible, then you should sticj by it until the title is won. Granted, the way Rubens gave the place to MS was in the most cynical way possible. If he'd perhaps had a slow pitstop, maybe no-one would be any the wiser. However, he wanted to prove that on his day, he could genuinely beat MS. IIRC, he has the winner's trophy from that race....
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John
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TheCompleteGuitarist,Jan 21 2010
08:10 PM
Irvine and Rubens were the lapdogs he preferred to Brundle and Herbert.

So these two drivers with 15 GP wins between them can simply be dismissed as lapdogs because they had Schumacher as a teammate... how absurd and how convenient for you.
TheCompleteGuitarist,Jan 21 2010
08:10 PM

I'm not saying either were WDC material or better than MS,

Herbert and Brundle... I should hope not... the very idea.
TheCompleteGuitarist,Jan 21 2010
08:10 PM

but certainly not treated well by the team at what might be considered MS bequest.

Without a shred of evidence to back that wild claim up only those with a personal grudge would consider it.
TheCompleteGuitarist,Jan 21 2010
08:10 PM

Certainly feisty capable and technical drivers [are] more threatening to MS.

I might agree you you on that point... save for the knowledge that such a driver is rarer than hens teeth.
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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I have neither a personal grudge and definitely not a shred of evidence to back up my point of view.

I think you're foolish to believe however that Michael insisting on number 3 has more to do with superstition and less to do with Michael putting on the psychological pressure and flexing his muscles.
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John
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Norbert,Jan 21 2010
09:39 PM
AndyW76,Jan 21 2010
05:06 PM
If a win at the Austrian GP in 2002 had been necessary to MS's title charge, I would have had no problem with it.

How could they know at the time that it wouldn't?

This tired worn out old argument is very convenient given it is 8 years later and we know how the season eventually went... but it always ignores the events leading up to that race...

Ferrari had seen one of their drivers score 4 DNF's in the first 5 races of the season... while their other driver by contrast has scored 4 Wins (and a 3rd place) in the first 5 races and is leading the championship...

Important at this point to remember that Ferrari compete to win.. win the WCC and if possible the WDC.

Now one of their drivers is clearly their best hope of winning both, the other is having a run of bad luck...

It's now the 6th race (of 18 so too early to know how the season will play out)... they are having a good race with both drivers are doing well and running 1-2 only it's their inconsistent driver leading... now Ferrari being human (and not possessing mystical powers of seeing into the future) look at the bigger picture they see they can switch their two drivers around and give their best hope in the WDC a bit extra 2points (should the season take a turn for the worst) while still achieving maximum points in the WCC... a win/win for the team... after all once they can be more certain of the season they will reward their other driver for his help and being a team player...

However as we have already established, Ferrari cannot see into the future (not even what will happen in the next 20 mins) and could not have known their driver would play silly buggers in the quite the manner he did...

It is an was the right choice for any team fighting for bot the WCC and the WDC.


In a parallel universe Ferrari's 'other' driver sees the bigger picture, does what he is paid millions of pounds to do and lets his teammate through when asked to... no drama, no fuss... and no embarrassment caused to his team... they go on to have a good season and when it becomes clear they are going to be strong for the remainder of the season said driver is rewarded but not being asked to switch when ahead, indeed is let through when he is behind his teammate.

But Rubens reverted to his selfish self and the rest is history...
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John
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TheCompleteGuitarist,Jan 21 2010
10:50 PM
I have neither a personal grudge and definitely not a shred of evidence to back up my point of view

Fine if you say so... but for one with 'no grudge' your typical Schumacher post would not substantiate that view... but I shall take you at your word.

TheCompleteGuitarist,Jan 21 2010
10:50 PM
I think you're foolish to believe however that Michael insisting on number 3 has more to do with superstition and less to do with Michael putting on the psychological pressure and flexing his muscles.

I have never said I believed his story of odd numbers being lucky... despite his career lending some credence to that notion... I totally agree it is mind games...

Just as Hamilton's 'blowing Alonso away' remark... it's what drivers do pre season... it's part of f1 since it's inception, no more, no less.. and as mind games go I have to say that is one of the best... <thumbsup>
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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I have no personal grudge against Schumacher. How could I? I don't know him personally and he's never done anything to hurt offend or cheat me out of anything.

Now if I'd had a grand riding on Damon for the title in 94 then maybe . . . .

I admire your admiration for Schumacher. His record of achievements speaks for itself.

Personally I wouldn't let it get to you so much John. You're never going to convince anyone if anything.

Let's face it if people are still calling Button not WDC material then what chance do you have.
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John
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TheCompleteGuitarist,Jan 21 2010
11:22 PM
Now if I'd had a grand riding on Damon for the title in 94 then maybe . . . .

you'd have learnt a valuable lesson not to gamble... <whistle>
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John
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TheCompleteGuitarist,Jan 21 2010
11:22 PM
I admire your admiration for Schumacher. His record of achievements speaks for itself.

Personally I wouldn't let it get to you so much John. You're never going to convince anyone if anything.

I admire Schumacher for his talent... unlike some I accept the 10% bad and enjoy the 90%

Others seem to revel in the 10% and grudgingly acknowledge the 90% or just plain ignore it completely (no names)

It is never my intention to convince anyone any different to what they believe simply because it different to my view... but I will counter what I see as untruths or misunderstandings...

I doubt I have ever changed anyone's mind... and that's fine by me
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P1
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With Nico having such an oversuperstitious mind-gaming old man as teammate, then hopefully he is cool enough to say by the end of the day its only a number. As Nico is giving his number up then it shows he doesn't share the same superstitions, and could play this to his advantage as its obviously a weakness in Michael.

Next for Nico is then putting Michaels race boots on tables when walking through the garage, undoing the top on the salt cellar, etc. Michael may even find a black cat fast asleep in his cockpit in Valencia and the odd one strolling across the pitlane in front of him... <devil>
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John
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P-One,Jan 22 2010
07:57 AM
Next for Nico is then putting Micheal's race boots on tables when walking through the garage, undoing the top on the salt cellar, etc. Michael may even find a black cat fast asleep in his cockpit in Valencia and the odd one strolling across the pitlane in front of him... <devil>

You forgot ladders and broked mirrors in that cliché laden post... <doh>

However given Nico's track record... on the track... he will have plenty of time for such pranks while his teammate is busy finishing his races. <roflmao>
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