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Just curious but what number will MS's car be?
Topic Started: Jan 17 2010, 10:40 PM (1,638 Views)
TheCompleteGuitarist
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John,Jan 20 2010
05:18 PM
Rob,Jan 20 2010
04:58 PM
Come to think of it, I don't recall Shumi racing w/ an even number.

Well to be accurate he has never completed a single race lap in a even number <blush>

Probably because he's always insisted on being treated as the lead driver in the team.

Could it possibly be suggested that Michael needs to be favoured by the team to be successful?

<flirt>
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John
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TheCompleteGuitarist,Jan 21 2010
01:42 PM
Probably because he's always insisted on being treated as the lead driver in the team.

catch 22... if you are the best you get treated as such... no insistence on his [part more like his teams doing what they can to stop him taking his talent to another team.
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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John,Jan 21 2010
02:12 PM
TheCompleteGuitarist,Jan 21 2010
01:42 PM
Probably because he's always insisted on being treated as the lead driver in the team.

catch 22... if you are the best you get treated as such... no insistence on his [part more like his teams doing what they can to stop him taking his talent to another team.

You are right John, but then he's always managed to oust drivers that he felt might have been a real threat.
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John
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TheCompleteGuitarist,Jan 21 2010
03:21 PM
but then he's always managed to oust drivers that he felt might have been a real threat.

I see two flaws with that statement...

First the notion that Irvine or Rubens were a 'real' threat is quite laughable...

and second the term 'oust' hardly applies when Irvine was a teammate for 4 years (1996-1999) and Rubens was a teammate for 6 years (2000-2005). If he wanted to 'oust' them surely they would never last two years at most..

I understand what you are trying to allude to, but your choice of words is pretty suspect.
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AndyW76
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Tell that to Piquet and Herbert.

<think>

OK, neither were a championship threat but both had potential to take points off him.
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P1
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John,Jan 21 2010
03:37 PM
P-One,Jan 20 2010
07:10 PM
In the entire history of F1, the number 4 car was never driven by an eventual world champion

1969... Jackie Stewart raced the Tyrrell Matra-Ford MS80 with the #4 at Zandvoort and won... and became WDC that year

Damn John, if that is the case, you just blew away my hard cruel statistics facing young Nico. :)

I may have misread one of my sources when going through that, as I had noted Stewart racing a Matra MS80 #7 that year.
Posted Image
Jackie Stewart in 1969 driving the MS80

I do also with a quick search find plenty of Stewart pictures from 1969 showing him in the #7:
Stewart 1969 at the Nurburgring

And quite interesting is this one:
Silverstone 1969 Pictures
Showing Stewart's team mate Jean Pierre Beltoise in the paddock with his #4 car, also the 2WD Matra MS80 model.

Was there the plausibility and allowance for swapping cars without having to update their race numbers back in 1969 or even swapping numbers between races? <think>

Also noticed a few 'rare collectables' sold online with the MS80 with #4 and a 'real gold plate' saying its a replica of Stewarts 1969 car. But, probably worth questioning an extra time...?
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Red Andy
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Before 1973 the numbers changed from race to race. It was only after then that car numbers stayed the same for the whole season.
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John
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Herbert was am much a threat to Schumacher as Irvine... as for Piquet he was passed his best before Schumacher joined the team...

And again I would say any preferential treatment shown towards Schumacher would be because the team decided it and NOT because Schumacher requested it... there is a difference.
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John
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Red Andy,Jan 21 2010
04:47 PM
Before 1973 the numbers changed from race to race. It was only after then that car numbers stayed the same for the whole season.

Jack Brabham won in a #4 car and Stewart won the 1972 French GP in the Tyrrell #4 (but not the championship)
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Rob
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AndyW76,Jan 21 2010
10:39 AM
Tell that to Piquet and Herbert.

<think>

OK, neither were a championship threat but both had potential to take points off him.

Not quite sure how you arrived at the conclusion they were ousted. Piquet retired after the 91 season, where he only has 4 races against Shumi, and even then would Flavio really give a relative rookie power to choose his teammate?

Herbert and Shumi only raced together in 95, and Shumi was on his way to Ferrari then. And I cannot really believe Shumi would have considered a driver he more than doubled in points a threat.
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AndyW76
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John,Jan 21 2010
04:47 PM
Herbert was am much a threat to Schumacher as Irvine... as for Piquet he was passed his best before Schumacher joined the team...

And again I would say any preferential treatment shown towards Schumacher would be because the team decided it and NOT because Schumacher requested it... there is a difference.

What ever you say but just remember when people insist there is a regime of favouritism at mcLaren in the Hakkinen and Raikkonen eras, citing complaints from DC and JPM, just remember that Herbert, amongst others, complained about his treatment at Benetton and not being allowed access to Schumacher's data while schumacher was still allowed to see Johnny's numbers. I'm pretty sure that Schumacher was party to that decision, otherwise, why would a team intentionally penalise one of their drivers in that way?
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AndyW76
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Rob,Jan 21 2010
04:54 PM
AndyW76,Jan 21 2010
10:39 AM
Tell that to Piquet and Herbert.

<think>

OK, neither were a championship threat but both had potential to take points off him.

Not quite sure how you arrived at the conclusion they were ousted. Piquet retired after the 91 season, where he only has 4 races against Shumi, and even then would Flavio really give a relative rookie power to choose his teammate?

Herbert and Shumi only raced together in 95, and Shumi was on his way to Ferrari then. And I cannot really believe Shumi would have considered a driver he more than doubled in points a threat.

I guess Johnny wasn't ousted as such but his treatment by the team wasn't always up to scratch.
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Rob
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AndyW76,Jan 21 2010
10:54 AM
John,Jan 21 2010
04:47 PM
Herbert was am much a threat to Schumacher as Irvine... as for Piquet he was passed his best before Schumacher joined the team...

And again I would say any preferential treatment shown towards Schumacher would be because the team decided it and NOT because Schumacher requested it... there is a difference.

What ever you say but just remember when people insist there is a regime of favouritism at mcLaren in the Hakkinen and Raikkonen eras, citing complaints from DC and JPM, just remember that Herbert, amongst others, complained about his treatment at Benetton and not being allowed access to Schumacher's data while schumacher was still allowed to see Johnny's numbers. I'm pretty sure that Schumacher was party to that decision, otherwise, why would a team intentionally penalise one of their drivers in that way?

That Shumi has had number one status for the majority of his career is a given fact, I don't think you will find many if any who will dispute that. Most of the reason I like to get on McLaren about having a number 1, is the people who give/gave Ferrari/Shumi so much flack for having him be the number 1 when other teams are/were doing it, just not openly.

Over the last few seasons though I think Ferrari have been one of the few teams to actually treat their drivers equally.
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Rob
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AndyW76,Jan 21 2010
10:58 AM
Rob,Jan 21 2010
04:54 PM
AndyW76,Jan 21 2010
10:39 AM
Tell that to Piquet and Herbert.

<think>

OK, neither were a championship threat but both had potential to take points off him.

Not quite sure how you arrived at the conclusion they were ousted. Piquet retired after the 91 season, where he only has 4 races against Shumi, and even then would Flavio really give a relative rookie power to choose his teammate?

Herbert and Shumi only raced together in 95, and Shumi was on his way to Ferrari then. And I cannot really believe Shumi would have considered a driver he more than doubled in points a threat.

I guess Johnny wasn't ousted as such but his treatment by the team wasn't always up to scratch.

Fair enough, I can see where a driver would get bothered by that, but I don't think less than equal treatment at Benetton ruined his F1 career.
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AndyW76
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Rob,Jan 21 2010
04:58 PM
AndyW76,Jan 21 2010
10:54 AM
John,Jan 21 2010
04:47 PM
Herbert was am much a threat to Schumacher as Irvine... as for Piquet he was passed his best before Schumacher joined the team...

And again I would say any preferential treatment shown towards Schumacher would be because the team decided it and NOT because Schumacher requested it... there is a difference.

What ever you say but just remember when people insist there is a regime of favouritism at mcLaren in the Hakkinen and Raikkonen eras, citing complaints from DC and JPM, just remember that Herbert, amongst others, complained about his treatment at Benetton and not being allowed access to Schumacher's data while schumacher was still allowed to see Johnny's numbers. I'm pretty sure that Schumacher was party to that decision, otherwise, why would a team intentionally penalise one of their drivers in that way?

That Shumi has had number one status for the majority of his career is a given fact, I don't think you will find many if any who will dispute that. Most of the reason I like to get on McLaren about having a number 1, is the people who give/gave Ferrari/Shumi so much flack for having him be the number 1 when other teams are/were doing it, just not openly.

Over the last few seasons though I think Ferrari have been one of the few teams to actually treat their drivers equally.

I agree that McLaren do overstate the equality issue but that is because they seem to be always under scrutiny for it. I had no problem with Ferrari issuing team orders in the past as it was pretty much expected. It was just the incident in Austria that really embarrassed F1 and Ferrari's rather bullying way they implemented team orders at a time when they were completely unnecessary. Their actions that day made it look like Schumacher was only allowed to win for them. I don't actually mind team orders, F1 is a team sport after all. They just need to be implemented in a sporting way. If a win at the Austrian GP in 2002 had been necessary to MS's title charge, I would have had no problem with it.
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