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| Moss gives his views... | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 16 2010, 03:58 PM (736 Views) | |
| John | Jan 16 2010, 03:58 PM Post #1 |
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Team Boss
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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80930 Sir Stirling believes the driver who scored 7 more titles than him will find it a 'sharp shock' when he returns... He may have a point... but he holds a minority view at present... Tick Tock... we shall know soon enough. |
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| Nomad | Jan 16 2010, 04:39 PM Post #2 |
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Engineer
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I suspect that Sir Stirling is comparing apples and oranges. Schu retired while he was in fine physical condition even if the young Turks were snapping at his heels. Moss was retired when he suffered that massive shunt at St. Mary's and was badly injured. I don't remember how much later it was when Moss tried on a race car again but he said that he had lost his edge and would not try to return. How much was due to not racing for a while and how much was due to his residual injuries, I cannot guess. |
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| Steelstallions | Jan 16 2010, 05:01 PM Post #3 |
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There's nothing controversial in what he has said. He can only compare himself to what it would be like returning to F1 after all he was an F1 racer. But as said apples and oranges that was a long time ago and he was not Schumacher. The dig about a quick number two driver falls flat on its face when you consider the massive amount of races he won and witnessed him win races that did not look winnable. In his prime, in a good car, not the best car, he could beat anybody hands down. |
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| safc_fan89 | Jan 16 2010, 05:28 PM Post #4 |
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Well no, it's a valid argument. His teammates were weak. If he'd had stronger teammates on equal terms, then he quite easily may not have won 7 titles. Just because you don't agree with something does not mean it is not a valid argument. |
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| Brave_Lee_Flea | Jan 16 2010, 06:18 PM Post #5 |
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Chief Engineer
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To be fair he didn't say it wasn't a valid argument, just that it "falls flat on its face" i.e. is easily countered. Actually I agree, at least to some degree, with Sir Stirling. Most of Schumacher's titles were won at a time when Schumacher was in strongest car on the grid and he didn;t have to contend with a quick teammate, so I think Moss's opinion does not completely "fall flat on its face" at all. There are many people out there who argue, quite vehemently, that Schumacher achievements are less than they might have been had he ever shared a team with another quick driver. I admit they tend to the paid up members of the Anti-Schumi brigade but still there is some merit in the argument. Which is not to say that Schumacher was not the class of his generation. He was. |
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| John | Jan 16 2010, 08:51 PM Post #6 |
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That is completely..... true. but it is a bit hard to create that situation however when you are the quickest driver of our generation... |
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| stradlin24 | Jan 16 2010, 10:19 PM Post #7 |
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To be honest at his peak I don't think it would have mattered who his teammate was but it's still a fair point that has been made I'm sure the first official practice session of the season will be the most watched ever as people want to see what Schumacher has got... |
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| Steelstallions | Jan 16 2010, 10:39 PM Post #8 |
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Glad you noticed that I was not saying Stirling Moss's comments were not valid. I didn't add more to what I meant, only because I have posted it many many times before when he was still racing for Ferrari. Ferrari were in the wilderness for two decades, now as i supported them during that period and never got to witness any success other than a few race wins and a certain unforgettable 1 -2 after Enzo died, Ferrari obviously were not in the mood to take any chances. Just think how many championships were lost on the very last race of the season since MS joined? He dragged the ever improving Ferrari to wins that should never have been and then on very few occasions needed the help of the number 2. Then just when the car was right he has an accident in which he breaks a leg and Irvine even with the full might of Ferrari behind him, a strong car and then the help of MS when he returned later in the season, still lost it on the last race. You don't take chances after that and the second driver was just that, a number 2 for the greater cause and at the time not against the rules. Barrichello is not a patch on MS yet he had to have his pound of flesh in Austria 2002, he should have carried out the team order many many laps before the finishing line and as I have said before, he should have been sacked for the massive amount of bad publicity he brought to the team. Ferrari never denied the 1 -2 status like other teams, they could have F up Barrichello's car by maxing out the adjustments they can make via remote link to the car and telling him to pit. The relied on him doing what he was paid for and he didn't, he was a total **** and even today Ferrari suffer for what he did. So, yes with a stronger team mate (but who are we talking about during 2000 to 2004? He would have lost points at certain GP's, but IMO this would only have affected the 2003 WDC. In effect, I am saying nobody who raced during that time close to him for the other 6 titles to make much of a difference to the final result? Massa kept him on his toes when he was ready to retire (or is that rest for 3 years) but at the end of the season MS still wiped the floor with him. He is a competitor now but even at 41 he is to be feared, a strong team mate IMO would only have made him step up a gear from a level that is already very high, so for me Stirlings point of view falls flat on its face. |
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| John | Jan 17 2010, 01:27 AM Post #9 |
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Off topic (althought part of the interview) but I find his 'queer' comment about Button a bit of a concern...
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| Nomad | Jan 17 2010, 03:34 AM Post #10 |
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John, Sir Stirling is a product of his times and in those times the term Queer was the common desciptive term for gays. His use of the term doesn't mean that he is homophobic, just that he is not particularly PC and still uses the language he used as a young man. He isn't the only one; lots of people just simply are not PC but still are rather nice people. |
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| Brave_Lee_Flea | Jan 17 2010, 09:30 AM Post #11 |
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Chief Engineer
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Also off topic ... is there anything British about Rolls Royce these days? |
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| Steelstallions | Jan 17 2010, 10:23 AM Post #12 |
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The name and maybe the wrong perception of it still being a British owned Marque designed and manufactured by a British work force. Like Lamborghini are now about as Italian as frozen pizza cooked by Iraqis in a London Kebab shop. Once the ownership goes to a bigger foreign manufacturer your just left with a name and a perception. That does not mean the cars are inferior, if anything they are better than they ever have been, but they are not British. The company failed on its own and only the perception of its history remain. Lamborghini never made a car as reliable as they do now, but it was a failed company that had to be taken over by a richer manufacturer, same goes for the rest. Had Rover realised its potential and turned a profit with the power to have taken over Rolls Royce, then it would have felt as though it was still British. I do not look at Rolls Royce as being British any more when its owned by a German manufacturer who could ship production to Malaysia if they wanted and have the UK just assemble the doors. Look at Vauxhall do you think that's British? What's the difference with Rolls Royce, either could be scaled down to have the major production moved to Germany with just the simplest of assembly in the UK to keep the Britishness of the Marque. |
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| P1 | Jan 17 2010, 11:18 AM Post #13 |
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To answer that question we first need to know your definition on what is British these days? |
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| GordonB | Jan 17 2010, 06:42 PM Post #14 |
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hmmmm.... The Mercedes formula 1 team?
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| Pasta | Jan 17 2010, 07:00 PM Post #15 |
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Chief Engineer
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Back to the topic, Mr. Moss is a bit long of tooth, and is ignoring the nature of Michael Schumacher. As to other comments about who Michael has raced against in the past, he completely dominated both RB and FM for many years. The team orders only came into play a very few times. Since then RB has been very competitive with Jensen, and Felipe was actually beating Kimi, who was reputed to be the purest fastest racer in the sport. While the team was behind Michael, and it was his team in a lot of respects, that still does not account for his normal dominance of his teammates, who were both good drivers. Anyway, we shall see this year. |
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