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Rosberg vs Schumacher; who will prevail
Topic Started: Dec 27 2009, 10:42 AM (1,490 Views)
Iberiafromoz
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Petra Lead,Dec 29 2009
11:26 AM
Alien_SAP_Fiend,Dec 29 2009
10:29 AM
Alonso's presence at Renault didn't bring them any results.  Why should Ferrari fare any better?

If I recall rightly, Alonso's presence helped net Renault two world titles.

Not bad for a team which even then was running on around half the budget of the big boys.

Ferrari are one of the big boys, if not the biggest. There is every reason to believe that if they can pull their corporate socks up a bit (for they are slumped near mid-calf at the moment) then Alonso could help Ferrari achieve good things.

I didn't say Alonso will win, please read my comment again.

Thanks Petra, about what I wanted to say.
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ELUSIVEJIM
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M Schumacher in his prime would beat Rosberg.

M Schumacher is still in his prime.

For me its an insult to older drivers saying they are past it or not so good because they are older than the rest of the field.

Look at RB last year did he show any signs of lack of fitness??

Personally i think M Schumacher will beat Rosberg and everyone else if the car is good enough

How many people thought JB was good enough to win a WC??

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Brave_Lee_Flea
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ELUSIVEJIM,Dec 30 2009
07:00 AM
M Schumacher in his prime would beat Rosberg.

M Schumacher is still in his prime.


Yes ... and no.

But still, I think, good enough to beat Rosberg. We're comparing a "not-yet-in-his prime" promising young driver against a "slightly-past-his-prime" arguably the best F1 driver that ever there was.

I'll be pleasantly surprised if Rosberg managed to beat Schumi over the course of the season

ELUSIVEJIM
 
For me its an insult to older drivers saying they are past it or not so good because they are older than the rest of the field.

Look at RB last year did he show any signs of lack of fitness??


I do think that Rubens faded during the race several times from promising positions last year. Whether that was down to fitness or ability I can't say, although to be honest I suspect the latter.

I am sure that Schumi will not have the quite level of fitness or the reflexes that he had 10 years ago. Most people believe that age takes the ultimate edge of a driver's speed.

I also know from my own experience that somewhere around 35 years old a certain realisation of your own mortality kicks in. It stops you taking quite so many risks, and Michael is going to have to compete against guys who don't yet recognise their own mortality and who may be hungrier than he is. Consider the link posted the other day in which Alonso said of driving around the outside of Schumi "it's at times like this that I remind myself that he has a wife and two kids".

That said, Schumacher has tremendous experience, a very analytical brain and should still be able to compete effectively if he has a good car and if he's hungry enough.

ELUSIVEJIM
 
Personally i think M Schumacher will beat Rosberg and everyone else if the car is good enough


The first I agree with. Unfortunately the second is a given in F1 where so much depends on the car and so little on the driver.

ELUSIVEJIM
 
How many people thought JB was good enough to win a WC??


I did.

But then I think that 80% of the drivers on the grid are good enough to win the WDC given the right car. And of course it helps when the "usual suspects" drop the ball so completely.

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sportsman
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Petra Lead,Dec 30 2009
10:35 AM


The first I agree with. Unfortunately the second is a given in F1 where so much depends on the car and so little on the driver.


As a generlarity that is quite true.But 2010 is a rather different in terms of drivers abilities.
Next season drivers capabilities will play a far greater part in the race than they have in previous years.
The drivers ability to get the best out of the car over the course of the race wil become more apparent
They will have to cope with the car balance altering as the fuel load decreases, and other changes in the cars characteristics.
In this area Schumachers experience and racecraft will be invaluable.I personally don't think that the drivers style will prove to be of any real benefit to any driver.
ie Hamilton hard on tyres and aggresive style.Alonso's late turn in style.And Buttons famed smoothness.
The real test is the various drivers abilities to adapt to the cars behaviour at any given fuel load.
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Brave_Lee_Flea
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sportsman,Dec 30 2009
11:10 AM
Petra Lead,Dec 30 2009
10:35 AM


The first I agree with. Unfortunately the second is a given in F1 where so much depends on the car and so little on the driver.


As a generlarity that is quite true.But 2010 is a rather different in terms of drivers abilities.
Next season drivers capabilities will play a far greater part in the race than they have in previous years.
The drivers ability to get the best out of the car over the course of the race wil become more apparent
They will have to cope with the car balance altering as the fuel load decreases, and other changes in the cars characteristics.
In this area Schumachers experience and racecraft will be invaluable.I personally don't think that the drivers style will prove to be of any real benefit to any driver.
ie Hamilton hard on tyres and aggresive style.Alonso's late turn in style.And Buttons famed smoothness.
The real test is the various drivers abilities to adapt to the cars behaviour at any given fuel load.

I hadn't thought of the refuelling thing, but yes, I agree about Schumi's experience and racecraft being invaluable.

Has Schumacher had a a season in which refuelling was not permitted? I think I remember a season in which no tyre changes were allowed, not quite sure about refuelling.

I have to say though that I think driving style will also play it's part. For example will a car heavily laden with fuel be so willing to turn in late or would it tip the balance of the car towards oversteer? If it does would that play into Lewis's hands?

Will be a very interesting season!
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sportsman
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It's a good question. That cars will be around 100kg heavier than this year, possibly more.
And I don't actually know the definitive answer.I would suspect that the extra weight still trying to go straight on would tend to cause understeer.But I cannot confirm that by any facts.
We need flood1 to give us a better idea.

Michael Schumacher drove for Jordan in 1991.The refuelling was reintroduced in 1994 so he does have some experience with full race loads.
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Norbert
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Petra Lead,Dec 30 2009
11:26 AM
Has Schumacher had a a season in which refuelling was not permitted? I think I remember a season in which no tyre changes were allowed, not quite sure about refuelling.

Yes. 1991, 1992 and 1993. Refuelling resumed in 1994. I think the no tyre change year was 2006?
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Brave_Lee_Flea
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Norbert,Dec 30 2009
01:21 PM
Petra Lead,Dec 30 2009
11:26 AM
Has Schumacher had a a season in which refuelling was not permitted? I think I remember a season in which no tyre changes were allowed, not quite sure about refuelling.

Yes. 1991, 1992 and 1993. Refuelling resumed in 1994. I think the no tyre change year was 2006?

Gosh, is he *that* old? Can you fit a zimmer frame into an F1 car?

:)
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Rob
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ELUSIVEJIM,Dec 30 2009
01:00 AM
M Schumacher in his prime would beat Rosberg.

M Schumacher is still in his prime.

For me its an insult to older drivers saying they are past it or not so good because they are older than the rest of the field.

Look at RB last year did he show any signs of lack of fitness??

Personally i think M Schumacher will beat Rosberg and everyone else if the car is good enough

How many people thought JB was good enough to win a WC??

I disagree, I think Shumi is a little past his best, of course his best was pretty damn mighty, and being a little past it is still better than most will ever be. In 2006 Shumi was straight up beaten by another driver is fairly equal cars. If the Merc is a good car he'll fight for race wins and probably challenge for the title, but I think he will have a hard time beating Alonso and Lewis for the title in equal-ish cars. He should finish in the top 4 or better at the end of the season.
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sportsman
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Petra Lead,Dec 30 2009
03:14 PM
Norbert,Dec 30 2009
01:21 PM
Petra Lead,Dec 30 2009
11:26 AM
Has Schumacher had a a season in which refuelling was not permitted? I think I remember a season in which no tyre changes were allowed, not quite sure about refuelling.

Yes. 1991, 1992 and 1993. Refuelling resumed in 1994. I think the no tyre change year was 2006?

Gosh, is he *that* old? Can you fit a zimmer frame into an F1 car?

:)

He doesn't actually need the zimmer in the car.Only when he is out of it ;)
But let's keep this age difference in perspective.
I am 64, and I had to retire from active VW Golf racing 5 years ago due to health reasons.
I was no Schumacher but the level I raced at competitive.And even today,I can still put in a lap time less than 7/10 ths of time of the cars regular driver. And he was 5th in the national championships last year.
It's not F1 I agree.But all things are relative.
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sportsman
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Rob,Dec 30 2009
03:39 PM
ELUSIVEJIM,Dec 30 2009
01:00 AM
M Schumacher in his prime would beat Rosberg.

M Schumacher is still in his prime.

For me its an insult to older drivers saying they are past it or not so good because they are older than the rest of the field.

Look at RB last year did he show any signs of lack of fitness??

Personally i think M Schumacher will beat Rosberg and everyone else if the car is good enough

How many people thought JB was good enough to win a WC??

I disagree, I think Shumi is a little past his best, of course his best was pretty damn mighty, and being a little past it is still better than most will ever be. In 2006 Shumi was straight up beaten by another driver is fairly equal cars. If the Merc is a good car he'll fight for race wins and probably challenge for the title, but I think he will have a hard time beating Alonso and Lewis for the title in equal-ish cars. He should finish in the top 4 or better at the end of the season.

I think that's a pretty accurate assessment.The other thing that does weigh quite heavily in Schumachers favour is his undoubted racing brain and racecraft.
These attributes will be very important next season


"Vettel reckons Schumacher's dedication to fitness will negate any potential disadvantage from his age. The seven times champion will be 41 by the time the 2010 season starts.

"From this point of view it certainly won't be easy for him," Vettel said of Schumacher's age.

"But if you look at him, he really is still in great shape. He's always been active. Naturally a lot will depend on the car's performance. Let's wait at least until the Bahrain GP to understand what will happen."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80700
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Brave_Lee_Flea
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sportsman,Dec 30 2009
06:10 PM
Petra Lead,Dec 30 2009
03:14 PM
Gosh, is he *that* old? Can you fit a zimmer frame into an F1 car?

:)

He doesn't actually need the zimmer in the car.Only when he is out of it ;)
But let's keep this age difference in perspective.
.
.
.
It's not F1 I agree.But all things are relative.

Oh come on, I said that I thought he'd still be better than Rosberg and I believe that have things in a very good perspective.

T'was nobbut a quip.

If age has anything to do with it it'll be more likely not that he won't be very nearly as fast as he ever was over one flying lap but rather may not have the same ability to sustain it over a race distance.

I believe that the drivers can lose kilos of fluid during the course of a race. We heard so much "back in the day" about how Schumi's levels of fitness gave him an edge, about how the fitness levels he achieved made it easier to keep a clear focus under the extreme conditions.

It is surely unlikely that he can achieve quite those same levels today, not even if he is really super fit for his age. Not even professional athletes can manage to do so.

So then, it is not unreasonable to assume that he won't have the edge that being the fittest driver on the grid gave him.

I agree that even a 90% fit Michael Schumacher is still likely to be one of the best drivers on the grid and imo almost certainly more than Rosberg can handle. The question is not will he be competitive but can he be as good as he was before and if not, how much will he have lost?

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sportsman
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My post was mean't to humurous.
But in answer to your question, No he cannot achieve the same levls.

I thought that Rob summed it up about right in his post
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ELUSIVEJIM
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The advantage for M Schumacher is he can be fast but look after his car as well.

What you have to remember is YES Lewis is a very fast driver but he can kill a set of tyres and needs to learn how to look after them which will mean he needs to change his driving style as will alot of drivers in F1.

Another factor why M Schumacher will challenge for the title is ROSS BRAWN.

Both these men know how to win championships and with some of the terrible calls in 2009 from Ferrari i would rather be in the Mercedes team with Ross than in a Ferrari if the conditions change.

Yes Schumacher is getting on but in my mind he will shock alot of people who think he is past it.

The guy is not stupid enough to come back and make a fool of himself
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Steelstallions
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ELUSIVEJIM,Dec 30 2009
09:00 PM


The guy is not stupid enough to come back and make a fool of himself

I doubt he will make a fool of himself he is too experienced, but when you have raced at the level he raced and have your name up their with 'legend' attached, he is taking a big gamble if he comes back and with a reasonable car is fighting for fourth.

Think of all that has been written about Senna since his death. Would the legendary heights he is at now be the same if by some of act of god he was brought to life at the age he was when he died and raced in 2010?

I doubt it, when you see them on the track and they are not doing what you remember them best for they lose that deserved aura they worked so hard to get.
A bit like watching Mike Tyson fight after he was released from Jail never mind the embarrassing fights years later. If he retired when he was undisputed champion his boxing legend would have endured and we all would have wondered what if and sports writers would have written pages about his boxing not just his domestic battles. There is no 'what if' with Mike Tyson, he got spanked in the ring when he didn't have the strength of his youth and lost a lot of the legendary status he had with those like me who watched him from his first fights and a hell of a lot from people who didn't watch him until after his jail release.

MS must pray that Brawn and Mercedes have a trick up their sleeve like Brawn GP had last season, because if his car is equal or lesser than the Ferraris, Mclarens and Red Bulls he risks making himself look just good not legendary.
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