Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to The Pit Lane. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Button
Topic Started: Dec 25 2009, 10:59 PM (956 Views)
TheCompleteGuitarist
Driver
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I recall a qualifying session where Alonso was pushing so much he spun. Most people praised his ability to collect the car when he lost control of it, however they did overlook the fact that he lost control and also the he ended up not making it to (I think) Q2. But hey who cares when you can handle a car like that ;)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Brave_Lee_Flea
Member Avatar
Chief Engineer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
TheCompleteGuitarist,Dec 29 2009
04:54 PM
I recall a qualifying session where Alonso was pushing so much he spun. Most people praised his ability to collect the car when he lost control of it, however they did overlook the fact that he lost control and also the he ended up not making it to (I think) Q2. But hey who cares when you can handle a car like that ;)

Meh. Happens to everybody sooner or later. I'm sure every driver has made a mistake during qualifying.

Look at his world championships years, or indeed the second half of his season at McLaren, to see how well the boy Alonso performs under pressure.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
GordonB
Chief Engineer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Petra Lead,Dec 31 2009
12:21 AM
TheCompleteGuitarist,Dec 29 2009
04:54 PM
I recall a qualifying session where Alonso was pushing so much he spun. Most people praised his ability to collect the car when he lost control of it, however they did overlook the fact that he lost control and also the he ended up not making it to (I think) Q2. But hey who cares when you can handle a car like that ;)

Meh. Happens to everybody sooner or later. I'm sure every driver has made a mistake during qualifying.

Look at his world championships years, or indeed the second half of his season at McLaren, to see how well the boy Alonso performs under pressure.

Yes I remember particularly Alonso's first WDC - he quite often tootled round collecting points when he wasn't in a position to challenge the Ferraris (who were really the only challengers in terms of car speeds), and I for one was critical of him for this.

I don't think he pulled off a single overtaking move that wasn't on his teammate.

On that score, Jenson wins hands down.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Brave_Lee_Flea
Member Avatar
Chief Engineer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
GordonB,Dec 31 2009
08:56 AM

Yes I remember particularly Alonso's first WDC - he quite often tootled round collecting points when he wasn't in a position to challenge the Ferraris (who were really the only challengers in terms of car speeds), and I for one was critical of him for this.

I don't think he pulled off a single overtaking move that wasn't on his teammate.

On that score, Jenson wins hands down.

Harsh. IMO Alonso did precisely what he needed to do. And so did Jenson.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
GordonB
Chief Engineer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Petra Lead,Dec 31 2009
09:00 AM

Harsh. IMO Alonso did precisely what he needed to do. And so did Jenson.

Yes harsh.

But as you say, demonstrates comparable skill / performance levels between Alonso and Button - which is what this topic is all about.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Brave_Lee_Flea
Member Avatar
Chief Engineer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
GordonB,Dec 31 2009
09:25 AM
Petra Lead,Dec 31 2009
09:00 AM

Harsh. IMO Alonso did precisely what he needed to do. And so did Jenson.

Yes harsh.

But as you say, demonstrates comparable skill / performance levels between Alonso and Button - which is what this topic is all about.

:) Fair, can't argue with that.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rob
Member Avatar

Admin
GordonB,Dec 31 2009
02:56 AM
Petra Lead,Dec 31 2009
12:21 AM
TheCompleteGuitarist,Dec 29 2009
04:54 PM
I recall a qualifying session where Alonso was pushing so much he spun. Most people praised his ability to collect the car when he lost control of it, however they did overlook the fact that he lost control and also the he ended up not making it to (I think) Q2. But hey who cares when you can handle a car like that ;)

Meh. Happens to everybody sooner or later. I'm sure every driver has made a mistake during qualifying.

Look at his world championships years, or indeed the second half of his season at McLaren, to see how well the boy Alonso performs under pressure.

Yes I remember particularly Alonso's first WDC - he quite often tootled round collecting points when he wasn't in a position to challenge the Ferraris (who were really the only challengers in terms of car speeds), and I for one was critical of him for this.

I don't think he pulled off a single overtaking move that wasn't on his teammate.

On that score, Jenson wins hands down.

While I hate to be the nitpicker here (ok I don't really hate it), for Alonso's first WDC he rarely had to worry about Ferraris because he was usually ahead of the 2005 Ferrari POS.

In both years he collected the points he could when he could. He did however have a few nifty moves around Shumi in both seasons, much to my dismay.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Brave_Lee_Flea
Member Avatar
Chief Engineer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Rob,Dec 31 2009
03:23 PM

While I hate to be the nitpicker here (ok I don't really hate it), for Alonso's first WDC he rarely had to worry about Ferraris because he was usually ahead of the 2005 Ferrari POS.

Well, since we're nitpicking .... I hate to defend Ferrari as they are clearly the spawn of the devil and rotten to the core (and I really do hate it) but I have always thought that the 2005 Ferrari was not the POS that people think.

If I recall correctly in 2005 tyre changes were disallowed in Formula One and a certain well-known tyre company that smells of wee dropped the ball totally, utterly and completely.

Ferrari were very diplomatic about it but I think 2005 was much more Bridgestone's fault than Ferrari's.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
flood1
Chief Engineer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Indeed!!!!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Red Andy
Member Avatar

Moderator
GordonB,Dec 31 2009
08:56 AM
Yes I remember particularly Alonso's first WDC - he quite often tootled round collecting points when he wasn't in a position to challenge the Ferraris (who were really the only challengers in terms of car speeds), and I for one was critical of him for this.

I guess you mean the McLarens - Ferrari had a poor year in 2005 and only ended up third in the WCC. Nonetheless I think there is a difference between playing the percentage game, which Alonso did in 2005, and having a bit of a mid-season collapse like Button did.

By the middle of 2005 the McLaren was clearly the faster car, although its reliability was questionable. Alonso knew that on most race weekends his Renault wasn't fast enough to win, but he was always challenging for the podium and often there to pick up the pieces when the McLarens hit trouble. Though losing ground to Montoya and especially Raikkonen, Alonso was consistently faster than his teammate, Fisichella. The only race in late '05 where Fisi finished ahead of Alonso was in Japan, where Fisi had started third and Alonso 17th.

Compare with 2009. Button wins six out of the first seven races, with third place in the one race he didn't win, then fails to get onto the podium for all but two of the remaining eleven rounds of the season. Like Renault in 2005, Brawn suffered as other teams caught and passed them in terms of performance. However, Button's failure to impress in late '09 cannot simply be attributed to the car - in the same period Barrichello won twice and frequently finished either just ahead of or just behind Jenson, whereas earlier in the season Button had been way ahead of his teammate. Jenson's slump was about more than just the car.

Quote:
 
I don't think he pulled off a single overtaking move that wasn't on his teammate.

Then you think wrong. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLZLxT1ZEPA&feature=related

There are other examples.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Brave_Lee_Flea
Member Avatar
Chief Engineer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Red Andy,Jan 1 2010
11:20 PM
I guess you mean the McLarens - Ferrari had a poor year in 2005 and only ended up third in the WCC. Nonetheless I think there is a difference between playing the percentage game, which Alonso did in 2005, and having a bit of a mid-season collapse like Button did.
.
.
.

Nicely argued.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
stradlin24
Member Avatar
Team Boss
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Petra Lead,Jan 1 2010
02:14 AM
.

Ferrari were very diplomatic about it but I think 2005 was much more Bridgestone's fault than Ferrari's.

at least Ferrari's tyres could make it round Indy though

<blush>

and comments very similar to mine were how all this begun

:)

(i'm sure the likes of lex, rob, ford know what i'm talking about about, couldn't miss that opportunity there)

anyway <topic>
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Red Andy
Member Avatar

Moderator
Personally I think Bridgestone make a convenient scapegoat, there's no doubt that the Michelin was the better tyre in 2005 but Ferrari went badly wrong with their car as well. Even in the wet at Spa, where the Bridgestone and Michelin tyres were pretty even (see the performance of Jordan, who ran in the points for most of the wet part of the race), Ferrari were still well off the pace.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Steelstallions
Member Avatar
Driver
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Red Andy,Jan 3 2010
11:01 AM
Personally I think Bridgestone make a convenient scapegoat, there's no doubt that the Michelin was the better tyre in 2005 but Ferrari went badly wrong with their car as well. Even in the wet at Spa, where the Bridgestone and Michelin tyres were pretty even (see the performance of Jordan, who ran in the points for most of the wet part of the race), Ferrari were still well off the pace.

Scapegoat? If only Ferrari had problems with Bridgestones then that statement would be quite right.

The 2005 Bridgestone tyres failed to give performance for single lap qualifying and were not as durable as their Michelin rivals during races, which is a bloody big problem in a stupid season that had rules which did not allow cars to have a pit stop to change worn tyres.
Only punctured or damaged tyres could be changed for equally worn tyres and only the damaged tyre could be changed. The season as far as tyres were concerned was a farce. Only teams with Michelin tyres could get results until the season really got stupid and Michelin dropped the ball and brought dangerous tyres to America which could not be changed due to the stupid rules on tyres that year.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rob
Member Avatar

Admin
stradlin24,Jan 2 2010
11:30 PM
Petra Lead,Jan 1 2010
02:14 AM
.

Ferrari were very diplomatic about it but I think 2005 was much more Bridgestone's fault than Ferrari's.

at least Ferrari's tyres could make it round Indy though

<blush>

and comments very similar to mine were how all this begun

:)

(i'm sure the likes of lex, rob, ford know what i'm talking about about, couldn't miss that opportunity there)

anyway <topic>

<roflmao>

Trips down memory lane.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
« Previous Topic · Formula 1 · Next Topic »
Add Reply