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Ferrari 2010; Driver line up
Topic Started: Aug 12 2009, 05:27 PM (1,471 Views)
Alien_SAP_Fiend
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Petra Lead,Aug 14 2009
07:02 PM
Yes, he was beating Montoya but it is well documented that Montoya had significant problems adapting to the handling of the McLaren.

Quite unlike the problems Kimi had adapting to the Ferrari in 2007!!

Kimi was heavily criticised for his driving at 110% and being blamed for the engine failures which robbed him of the 2005 WDC.

Now that he's driving more cautiously, he's accused of having 'lost motivation' and people interpret his reluctance to play the diva for the press as another symptom of this loss of motivation.

The guy signed for an extension to his contract in the middle of 2008! To think that a year later he's decided to retire is absolute nonsense. And to think that Ferrari are going to replace either of their drivers who have collected 2 WCC's and one WDC in 2 years with a driver whose antics cost Mclaren both is plumbing the depths of stupidity.
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AndyW76
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Hang on, how did a thread on Ferrari's future driver line up become an attack on Hamilton?

Well, yes, a driver criticising a team can be rather hurtful but when you go from being WDC to literally the back of the grid over night, I think that a driver is entitled to express his opinion. In addition, I don't recall Lewis actuallyu ever throwing his teddy out of the pram in public. Yes he has said "we weren't good enough" meaning "we" collectively, the driver, car and team, but that is along way from saying "Everyone else is to blame but me". When Lewis does comments on bad performance, talks collectively as if he is part of the team. Remember Silverstone quallie, he admitted that his final aborted lap was nothing special and refused to blame the red flag for missing out on Q2.

Comparing this to Alonso, he is famous for accusing his team of sabotaging his WDC effort in 2006, when he was still winning. OK, I don't really blame him because I suspect that the atmosphere in Renault at the time was somewhat frosty due to the fact that Alonso was leaving at the end of the year, but to suggest that Lewis has said the same kind of thing is just a tad far fetched.
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AndyW76
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Alien_SAP_Fiend,Aug 17 2009
09:16 AM
Petra Lead,Aug 14 2009
07:02 PM
Yes, he was beating Montoya but it is well documented that Montoya had significant problems adapting to the handling of the McLaren.

Quite unlike the problems Kimi had adapting to the Ferrari in 2007!!

Kimi was heavily criticised for his driving at 110% and being blamed for the engine failures which robbed him of the 2005 WDC.

Now that he's driving more cautiously, he's accused of having 'lost motivation' and people interpret his reluctance to play the diva for the press as another symptom of this loss of motivation.

The guy signed for an extension to his contract in the middle of 2008! To think that a year later he's decided to retire is absolute nonsense. And to think that Ferrari are going to replace either of their drivers who have collected 2 WCC's and one WDC in 2 years with a driver whose antics cost Mclaren both is plumbing the depths of stupidity.

Yeah, I guess you can't have it both ways. I suspect that Mercedes did have a culture of building fragile engines in an effort to gain power and had yet to find the secret to reliability that Ferrari discovered during Schumi's tenure. Of course, I think that it was unfortunate timing that Mercedes introduced their "bullet proof" engine just as kimi was joining Ferrari and this did kimi's reputation no favours.

The only reason that I feel that Kimi had lost his motivation is that he went from WDC in 2007 to doing "disappearing acts" during races in 2008 (only to pop in a fasest lap at the end when well out of contention). To me that is not a hungry driver. I can't really comment on this year because both Ferrari's have suffered but I suspect that Kimi has been read the riot act.
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Alien_SAP_Fiend
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Listen carefully

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1pj9fvYyhE

He's staying for 2010.
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AndyW76
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Just because he says it in an interview doesn't make it necessarily so. Mansell announced his retirement in the middle of 1990 but had changed his mind by the end of the year.
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Brave_Lee_Flea
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stradlin24,Aug 16 2009
03:17 PM
Hamilton just got on with the job of beating Alonso whilst Alonso got on with the job of having temper tantrums and blocking his team-MATE in at the pits

There is just no point in trying to get you to see anything objectively.

You know very well *why* Alonso blocked Hamilton in the pits - and that incident would also serve as one very good example of Hamilton rubbing up Alonso the wrong way.

It is a shame you chose to nit-pick at one small point in my post rather than reading and responding to the message of the entire post because I didn't want to address Hamilton per se.

Rather I wanted to debate the points you raised in claiming that the entire nation wants it's sports-stars to fail and that those of us that don't like Lewis don't even know what it is we dislike - and why it is that you seem to think that you alone have objective opinions.

I knew it was a waste of time even as I wrote the message. Your level of "hate" and bias is probably greater than anybody else on this forum and I don't any longer believe that I can reason with you.
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Brave_Lee_Flea
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Alien_SAP_Fiend,Aug 17 2009
09:16 AM
Petra Lead,Aug 14 2009
07:02 PM
Yes, he was beating Montoya but it is well documented that Montoya had significant problems adapting to the handling of the McLaren.

Quite unlike the problems Kimi had adapting to the Ferrari in 2007!!

Kimi was heavily criticised for his driving at 110% and being blamed for the engine failures which robbed him of the 2005 WDC.

Now that he's driving more cautiously, he's accused of having 'lost motivation' and people interpret his reluctance to play the diva for the press as another symptom of this loss of motivation.


Yeah ok, good points there.

In my defence I did say that I think Kimi's problems started well before he left McLaren.

I have no criticism to make of his not playing up to the press (it's one of the reasons I love the guy) and I don't think, given his personality, that anything can be inferred from that.

While I initially may have criticised Kimi for "breaking" his car I did once look into the stats (and post them here); I found that apart from during his first season Kimi had (at that time) had less mechanical failures than any of his team-mates.

And you may well be right; maybe it's not lack of motivation, maybe it is to do with a maturing driving style or the evolution of tyre technology or the Ferrari not being suited to his driving style. Or maybe all three.


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dazzerjp
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RJHSaints,Aug 13 2009
10:10 PM
Massa and Raikkonen. Surely Ferrari couldn't possibly drop Massa after all they've been through together, and Kimi I think will really step up to the plate during Felipe's absence, convincing Ferrari they don't need Alonso. It might happen in 2011 though.

A nice thought, but F1 has only really enough sentiment for champs.. Senna, Kimi, MS, HAMILTON
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AndyW76
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Petra Lead,Aug 18 2009
12:10 PM
You know very well *why* Alonso blocked Hamilton in the pits - and that incident would also serve as one very good example of Hamilton rubbing up Alonso the wrong way.

Not really, I don't see how Hamilton not letting Alonso past on his out lap really justified Alonso's actions. But that is beside the point.

You say that Lewis rubbed Fernando up the wrong way, I don't believe that is true. Alonso has stated on more than one occasion that it was the team that he had a problem with not Lewis. In return, Lewis has still had significant problems with certain "fans" who choose to ignore the reality of the situation.

I believe that Fernando's real problem was with the fact that McLaren did not order Lewis to support him throughout the year and who can blame them, Lewis was leading the championship for god sake.
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Jack
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AndyW76,Aug 18 2009
01:52 PM
Petra Lead,Aug 18 2009
12:10 PM
You know very well *why* Alonso blocked Hamilton in the pits - and that incident would also serve as one very good example of Hamilton rubbing up Alonso the wrong way.

Not really, I don't see how Hamilton not letting Alonso past on his out lap really justified Alonso's actions. But that is beside the point.

You say that Lewis rubbed Fernando up the wrong way, I don't believe that is true. Alonso has stated on more than one occasion that it was the team that he had a problem with not Lewis. In return, Lewis has still had significant problems with certain "fans" who choose to ignore the reality of the situation.

I believe that Fernando's real problem was with the fact that McLaren did not order Lewis to support him throughout the year and who can blame them, Lewis was leading the championship for god sake.

Long time ago I read an interview to FA and he said (more or less):

"When there is an agreement and one of the drivers breaks the agreement and *nothing happens* then you realise you have nothing to do at that team. (...)"

and

"All the small improvements in the car were always for Hamilton."

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Red Andy
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AndyW76,Aug 18 2009
01:52 PM
Petra Lead,Aug 18 2009
12:10 PM
You know very well *why* Alonso blocked Hamilton in the pits - and that incident would also serve as one very good example of Hamilton rubbing up Alonso the wrong way.

Not really, I don't see how Hamilton not letting Alonso past on his out lap really justified Alonso's actions. But that is beside the point.

The fact that McLaren defended Alonso in that case (saying that they had told him to wait) goes to show that they weren't overly impressed by Hamilton's actions, either. Apparently when Hamilton missed the chance to do his extra lap, and radioed to Ron to complain, Ron replied "That's what you get when you don't f***ing listen."

The FIA used that as evidence that McLaren were complicit in Alonso's actions, hence docking their points, but I think Alonso acted alone and Ron said that not because he'd told Fernando to do it, but he understood why he had done it.
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Rob
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dazzerjp,Aug 18 2009
07:43 AM
RJHSaints,Aug 13 2009
10:10 PM
Massa and Raikkonen. Surely Ferrari couldn't possibly drop Massa after all they've been through together, and Kimi I think will really step up to the plate during Felipe's absence, convincing Ferrari they don't need Alonso. It might happen in 2011 though.

A nice thought, but F1 has only really enough sentiment for champs.. Senna, Kimi, MS, HAMILTON

Not exactly, Mansell, Hill, JV.
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AndyW76
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Red Andy,Aug 18 2009
02:14 PM
AndyW76,Aug 18 2009
01:52 PM
Petra Lead,Aug 18 2009
12:10 PM
You know very well *why* Alonso blocked Hamilton in the pits - and that incident would also serve as one very good example of Hamilton rubbing up Alonso the wrong way.

Not really, I don't see how Hamilton not letting Alonso past on his out lap really justified Alonso's actions. But that is beside the point.

The fact that McLaren defended Alonso in that case (saying that they had told him to wait) goes to show that they weren't overly impressed by Hamilton's actions, either. Apparently when Hamilton missed the chance to do his extra lap, and radioed to Ron to complain, Ron replied "That's what you get when you don't f***ing listen."

The FIA used that as evidence that McLaren were complicit in Alonso's actions, hence docking their points, but I think Alonso acted alone and Ron said that not because he'd told Fernando to do it, but he understood why he had done it.

Yeah, but 2 wrongs don't make a right. If Ron chose to discipline Lewis later then that was his business, but it was not Alonso's job to dish out his own brand of justice. If the situation was reversed, I'm sure that Alonso would have been publicly calling for Lewis to be sacked.

In his actions, Alonso not only penalised Lewis (temporarily) and himself (by his 5 place grid drop) but also the entire team (when they were docked their constructors points for the weekend). I seem to remember Alonso taking the law in to his own hands in previous years when he went out and intentionally blocked a driver who accidentally blocked him. There is no room for that kind of behaviour in a sport that is already very dangerous.
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AndyW76
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Rob,Aug 18 2009
03:13 PM
dazzerjp,Aug 18 2009
07:43 AM
RJHSaints,Aug 13 2009
10:10 PM
Massa and Raikkonen. Surely Ferrari couldn't possibly drop Massa after all they've been through together, and Kimi I think will really step up to the plate during Felipe's absence, convincing Ferrari they don't need Alonso. It might happen in 2011 though.

A nice thought, but F1 has only really enough sentiment for champs.. Senna, Kimi, MS, HAMILTON

Not exactly, Mansell, Hill, JV.

I can accept Mansell as being universally popular but Hill, as much as he had fans, did have numerous critics. As for JV, he lost his popularity when he chased the money then started making excuses.
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Brave_Lee_Flea
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AndyW76,Aug 18 2009
03:40 PM

Yeah, but 2 wrongs don't make a right.

It wasn't suggested that two wrongs made a right, it as suggested that this was an example of Lewis rubbing Alonso up the wrong way.

I have to say though it made much more compelling viewing than Lewis rubbing Alonso up the the right way .....

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