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Ferrari 2010; Driver line up
Topic Started: Aug 12 2009, 05:27 PM (1,472 Views)
Norbert
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ELUSIVEJIM,Aug 15 2009
02:15 PM
This year in the Mclaren has been great for Lewis.

Its given him a taste of what it is like to drive a dog of a car which is always good for a driver who has had great cars

All drivers need to be grounded sometimes and i have alot more respect for Lewis now <thumbsup>

For me, I've actually lost some respect for him because of this year. For the last two years, even through the whole Spygate thing, Alonso thing, Chicanegate etc, Lewis was nothing but a perfect gentlemen in his interviews. He always thanked his team for every decent finish, always played them up in press, and generally floated around the paddock like someone who was on top of the world. Well, last year he literally was. Yet, this year, the car started off as a pile of crap. We had the Liegate thing, and then the sulking and bitterness started. Gone was the 'we win together and lose together' attitude that he'd shown previously. Suddenly we were hearing how rubbish his car was, how he had no chances of winning. There werre rumours floating about that his dad was so incensed by the Liegate scenario that he was considering looking at other teams (probably a cover for looking for a faster team) and Lewis did very little to put the story to bed. His dad, who was still seeking tv coverage wherever he could get it, was now looking like a Bulldog licking pee off of a thistle instead of the proud dad who tried to look sophisticated every time a camera got within 100 yards of him (or vice versa). The 'welcome to my world' interview would really have pleased the team. It's funny how when everything was going almost recordbreakingly well in his first two seasons, he and the team won and lost together, yet as soon as the car wasn't capable, it was all down to the car.....

All of a sudden, one win comes along, and suddenly it's all sunshine again. OK, other drivers turn on their teams in hard times, just look at Alonso claiming that Renault were trying to lose him a title chance, however I don't think it's the attitude to have. There are plenty of very seasoned drivers out there who have had shockers and managed to be diplomatic. I don't recall Massa or Kimi ever blowing up on the team, although maybe Kimi's reliability issues at McLaren caused him to - I don't generally listen to his interviews because his voice gives me a headache and makes me feel depressed. Schumacher never slagged off Ferrari if and when it frequently went wrong in the early years, not to mention the two reliability issues in his last two races that effectively cost him the 2006 title, the tyre issues in 205 that left Ferrari in the middle of nowhere. Mark Webber and Johnny Herbert have both earned the moniker 'Unluckiest man in F1', but they aren't/weren't the sort to come out and openly sulk for months. I still see Alonso as the worst offender, and it's the main reason that I really don't like the bloke very much, but Lewis needs to be a bit careful about his attitude, whether or not he is the second coming. Ron is not there to act as his surrogate father, and maybe that's part of the reason, however I seem to recall that after Liegate, the Hamiltons removed Ron from their Xmas card list rather publically....
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stradlin24
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There's little point Hamilton saying anything because no matter what he says the Ferrari hit squad will be straight on his back

If he backs up the team, it's because he's nothing more then a McLaren corporate mouthpeice

If he critisises the team, he's throwing the toys out of the pram

if he says the safe things, it's because he's bland and dull

if he says controversial things, it's because he's got an attitude and wants lots of attention

it doesn't matter what Lewis Hamilton does or says, he can't win with the haters (who aren't even sure what they are hating.)

it amazes me in this country that we get successful sports stars and all we want to do is bring them down, we want them to fail, why? Because we don't like sucess in this country, we don't like people doing better than us and we'd rather support a load of moaning, whinging, italian greasers known as Ferrari. (who are STILL whinging about the schumi testing despite the fact he's not up to driving the car!)

how did we get to this stage?

i want Lewis Hamilton to do well because he represents this country at a world sport, he's made the odd mistake but who hasn't? Lets have everyone on here post all their mistakes and then let me castigate them for it over and over again.

to even start comparing Michael Schumacher to Lewis Hamilton is out of order. Schumacher's conduct over a long period of time has earned him the hatred that he has to live with now but Hamilton's hatred is completley of out proportion.

this is a guy who is in his.................................THIRD season of f1

incredible
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RJHSaints
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Petra Lead,Aug 15 2009
03:13 PM
RJHSaints,Aug 15 2009
11:36 AM
I agree about Hamilton. He always drives the car at 101%....


... but you can't see that Kimi has not been doing this for the past few years? Or is it that you don't remember him ever doing it?

Sorry if that sounds aggressive, it's not meant to; I am interestedto hear your answer as I cannot understand how you can recognise what Lewis is doing and still think that Kimi's driving is as aggressive as it ever was.

Not at all; I think Raikkonen has been driving it 101% at times this year, and even last year for that matter. In Hungary, he was overdriving to the extent that he made mistakes. Towards the end in Spa last year, he tried desperately hard in a Ferrari that was not as good as the McLaren in the wet and ended up putting it in the wall. In Monaco this year, both he and Massa were driving the car very hard indeed. Realistically at that point, it was the third fastest car yet they got a 3-4 on merit and outpaced the Red Bulls.

These are of course only occassional examples, but I simply don't believe that it is any different now than it has been in the past. Perhaps Raikkonen is more laid-back off the track (if that were possible), but on the track I still think he lacks little in motivation.
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RJHSaints
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Norbert,Aug 16 2009
09:09 AM
ELUSIVEJIM,Aug 15 2009
02:15 PM
This year in the Mclaren has been great for Lewis.

Its given him a taste of what it is like to drive a dog of a car which is always good for a driver who has had great cars

All drivers need to be grounded sometimes and i have alot more respect for Lewis now  <thumbsup>

For me, I've actually lost some respect for him because of this year. For the last two years, even through the whole Spygate thing, Alonso thing, Chicanegate etc, Lewis was nothing but a perfect gentlemen in his interviews. He always thanked his team for every decent finish, always played them up in press, and generally floated around the paddock like someone who was on top of the world. Well, last year he literally was. Yet, this year, the car started off as a pile of crap. We had the Liegate thing, and then the sulking and bitterness started. Gone was the 'we win together and lose together' attitude that he'd shown previously. Suddenly we were hearing how rubbish his car was, how he had no chances of winning. There werre rumours floating about that his dad was so incensed by the Liegate scenario that he was considering looking at other teams (probably a cover for looking for a faster team) and Lewis did very little to put the story to bed. His dad, who was still seeking tv coverage wherever he could get it, was now looking like a Bulldog licking pee off of a thistle instead of the proud dad who tried to look sophisticated every time a camera got within 100 yards of him (or vice versa). The 'welcome to my world' interview would really have pleased the team. It's funny how when everything was going almost recordbreakingly well in his first two seasons, he and the team won and lost together, yet as soon as the car wasn't capable, it was all down to the car.....

All of a sudden, one win comes along, and suddenly it's all sunshine again. OK, other drivers turn on their teams in hard times, just look at Alonso claiming that Renault were trying to lose him a title chance, however I don't think it's the attitude to have. There are plenty of very seasoned drivers out there who have had shockers and managed to be diplomatic. I don't recall Massa or Kimi ever blowing up on the team, although maybe Kimi's reliability issues at McLaren caused him to - I don't generally listen to his interviews because his voice gives me a headache and makes me feel depressed. Schumacher never slagged off Ferrari if and when it frequently went wrong in the early years, not to mention the two reliability issues in his last two races that effectively cost him the 2006 title, the tyre issues in 205 that left Ferrari in the middle of nowhere. Mark Webber and Johnny Herbert have both earned the moniker 'Unluckiest man in F1', but they aren't/weren't the sort to come out and openly sulk for months. I still see Alonso as the worst offender, and it's the main reason that I really don't like the bloke very much, but Lewis needs to be a bit careful about his attitude, whether or not he is the second coming. Ron is not there to act as his surrogate father, and maybe that's part of the reason, however I seem to recall that after Liegate, the Hamiltons removed Ron from their Xmas card list rather publically....

I don't agree at all. Aside from the fact he has shown general exasperation at the poor performance of the car, I don't think he has specifically attacked his team or criticised the team. If anything, he has constantly been praising the team for their hard work during a difficult season.

Yes he has shown frustration at the situation, but this is not the same as showing frustration at his team.
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Norbert
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stradlin24,Aug 16 2009
01:23 PM
There's little point Hamilton saying anything because no matter what he says the Ferrari hit squad will be straight on his back

If he backs up the team, it's because he's nothing more then a McLaren corporate mouthpeice

If he critisises the team, he's throwing the toys out of the pram

if he says the safe things, it's because he's bland and dull

if he says controversial things, it's because he's got an attitude and wants lots of attention

it doesn't matter what Lewis Hamilton does or says, he can't win with the haters (who aren't even sure what they are hating.)

it amazes me in this country that we get successful sports stars and all we want to do is bring them down, we want them to fail, why? Because we don't like sucess in this country, we don't like people doing better than us and we'd rather support a load of moaning, whinging, italian greasers known as Ferrari. (who are STILL whinging about the schumi testing despite the fact he's not up to driving the car!)

how did we get to this stage?

i want Lewis Hamilton to do well because he represents this country at a world sport, he's made the odd mistake but who hasn't? Lets have everyone on here post all their mistakes and then let me castigate them for it over and over again.

to even start comparing Michael Schumacher to Lewis Hamilton is out of order. Schumacher's conduct over a long period of time has earned him the hatred that he has to live with now but Hamilton's hatred is completley of out proportion.

this is a guy who is in his.................................THIRD season of f1

incredible

Translation:

You don't agree, but let's have a little dig at Ferrari just for the sake of it. I note that you don't have anything to say about the fact that I accused Alonso of having the same failings, but actually being WORSE in that respect than Lewis, but then Alonso doesn't (yet) drive for Ferrari so any comments about him can be ignored until he does, when suddenly you'll hate him too....

<thumbsup>
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Norbert
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RJHSaints,Aug 16 2009
02:41 PM
I don't agree at all. Aside from the fact he has shown general exasperation at the poor performance of the car, I don't think he has specifically attacked his team or criticised the team. If anything, he has constantly been praising the team for their hard work during a difficult season.

Yes he has shown frustration at the situation, but this is not the same as showing frustration at his team.

Yes, he's always praised the team for their hard work, but recently he's also been being far more blunt and less diplomatic about the performance of the car. Until it won, of course. The point I am making is that historically, there have been a lot of other drivers who have landed in far worse positions that have said a lot less about how bad everything was. And, as I also said, to be fair there is a certain champion on the grid who is and was a lot worse in this sort of manner than Lewis.
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Brave_Lee_Flea
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stradlin24,Aug 16 2009
12:23 PM
There's little point Hamilton saying anything because no matter what he says the Ferrari hit squad will be straight on his back

If he backs up the team, it's because he's nothing more then a McLaren corporate mouthpeice

If he critisises the team, he's throwing the toys out of the pram

if he says the safe things, it's because he's bland and dull

if he says controversial things, it's because he's got an attitude and wants lots of attention

it doesn't matter what Lewis Hamilton does or says, he can't win with the haters (who aren't even sure what they are hating.)

it amazes me in this country that we get successful sports stars and all we want to do is bring them down, we want them to fail, why? Because we don't like sucess in this country, we don't like people doing better than us and we'd rather support a load of moaning, whinging, italian greasers known as Ferrari. (who are STILL whinging about the schumi testing despite the fact he's not up to driving the car!)

how did we get to this stage?

i want Lewis Hamilton to do well because he represents this country at a world sport, he's made the odd mistake but who hasn't? Lets have everyone on here post all their mistakes and then let me castigate them for it over and over again.

to even start comparing Michael Schumacher to Lewis Hamilton is out of order. Schumacher's conduct over a long period of time has earned him the hatred that he has to live with now but Hamilton's hatred is completley of out proportion.

this is a guy who is in his.................................THIRD season of f1

incredible

You are mistaken, it has nothing to do with nationality and everything to do with personality. Without any evidence to back up my opinion I'd say that more people in the UK support Lewis than don't, so to criticise the entire nation is ridiculous.

For a guy who is only in his third season he sure has a knack of rubbing people up the wrong way, be it Alonso, Ron or a significant percentage of the general public. That's not even a speculative opinion - that's an undeniable fact.

I took an almost immediate dislike to the way Lewis presented himself. I felt he was arrogant, conceited and not entirely genuine. Until this year he said or did precious little which might have caused me to change my mind.

My younger brother who bought Lewis's first kart and who really wanted to like and support Lewis didn't take much longer to come the same conclusions; about three months.

Unlike Norbert I have noticed that a lot of the smugness has gone this year and despite liegate I have found him to be more likeable as a result. I was particularly impressed with how he spoke so warmly and generously about Jenson's success.

Don't get me wrong, my judgement of his driving ability is objective enough; he is a wonderful talent and has the potential to be one of the all-time greats.

I just don't like him very much.

So you are mistaken also in thinking I don't know what it is I'm "hating" ... it's very clear in my mind and I'm sure that I and many other people here have made their opinions on the subject very clear. If you haven't been able to glean that information from the myriad of posts on the subject then I'd suggest the problem lies with you.

I find it strange how you are so keen to criticise Schumacher for his cheating yet unwilling to accept any criticism of Lewis for similar behaviour.

I think your standards are not evenly applied, and that your opinions are based mostly on your your relative like and dislike of the drivers rather than any objective assessment.

The same as the rest of us then really.......
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Brave_Lee_Flea
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RJHSaints,Aug 16 2009
01:41 PM

I don't agree at all. Aside from the fact he has shown general exasperation at the poor performance of the car, I don't think he has specifically attacked his team or criticised the team. If anything, he has constantly been praising the team for their hard work during a difficult season.

Yes he has shown frustration at the situation, but this is not the same as showing frustration at his team.

I'd have to agree with this.
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stradlin24
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Yes Petra, Hamilton rubbed Alonso up the wrong way. Erm, how?

By beating him?

If anyone rubbed anyone up the wrong way it was Alonso to Hamilton. Once again the pit lane incident at Hungary doesn't exist. Hamilton had alot more to be upset that season then his diva teammate

Explain how Hamilton 'rubbed up' Alonso the wrong way. Hamilton just got on with the job of beating Alonso whilst Alonso got on with the job of having temper tantrums and blocking his team-MATE in at the pits

i don't understand your words on that one
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PiquetFan
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stradlin24,Aug 16 2009
05:17 PM
Yes Petra, Hamilton rubbed Alonso up the wrong way. Erm, how?

By beating him?

If anyone rubbed anyone up the wrong way it was Alonso to Hamilton. Once again the pit lane incident at Hungary doesn't exist. Hamilton had alot more to be upset that season then his diva teammate

Explain how Hamilton 'rubbed up' Alonso the wrong way. Hamilton just got on with the job of beating Alonso whilst Alonso got on with the job of having temper tantrums and blocking his team-MATE in at the pits

i don't understand your words on that one

I believe you need to read the entire post <hitwall>
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RJHSaints
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Norbert,Aug 16 2009
03:17 PM
RJHSaints,Aug 16 2009
02:41 PM
I don't agree at all. Aside from the fact he has shown general exasperation at the poor performance of the car, I don't think he has specifically attacked his team or criticised the team. If anything, he has constantly been praising the team for their hard work during a difficult season.

Yes he has shown frustration at the situation, but this is not the same as showing frustration at his team.

Yes, he's always praised the team for their hard work, but recently he's also been being far more blunt and less diplomatic about the performance of the car. Until it won, of course. The point I am making is that historically, there have been a lot of other drivers who have landed in far worse positions that have said a lot less about how bad everything was. And, as I also said, to be fair there is a certain champion on the grid who is and was a lot worse in this sort of manner than Lewis.

I think it's acceptable to say this year's McLaren was a below-par effort, without actually pointing the finger of blame at anyone. Because it has been, and he is entitled to show his frustration rather than bottling it up and having it affect his driving. As long as he doesn't point fingers and turn on the team, I don't see the harm in having a bit of a whinge from time to time, especially when enduring such a dramatic fall from grace.
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slbb2611
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I think a lot of it comes down to maturity. There have been times where Lewis has been fairly harsh in his criticism of the car but he is only 24 and it must be frustrating to know that title is on the line yet there is nothing you can do to defend it. Alonso was definitely one to point the finger in 2006 but again he was still quite young and hasn't said anything bad about the car or Renault over the past couple of years.
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Red Andy
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RJHSaints,Aug 16 2009
06:24 PM
I think it's acceptable to say this year's McLaren was a below-par effort, without actually pointing the finger of blame at anyone. Because it has been, and he is entitled to show his frustration rather than bottling it up and having it affect his driving. As long as he doesn't point fingers and turn on the team, I don't see the harm in having a bit of a whinge from time to time, especially when enduring such a dramatic fall from grace.

But who builds the car? The team, of course. It doesn't just magically show up on the factory floor, you know. <LOL>

So criticism of the car is, by extension, criticism of the team that designed and built it. Hamilton's not the only person to have done this but, as Norbert says, there are quite a few others who have stayed quiet in much worse positions.
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stradlin24
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PiquetFan,Aug 16 2009
05:10 PM
stradlin24,Aug 16 2009
05:17 PM
Yes Petra, Hamilton rubbed Alonso up the wrong way. Erm, how?

By beating him?

If anyone rubbed anyone up the wrong way it was Alonso to Hamilton. Once again the pit lane incident at Hungary doesn't exist. Hamilton had alot more to be upset that season then his diva teammate

Explain how Hamilton 'rubbed up' Alonso the wrong way. Hamilton just got on with the job of beating Alonso whilst Alonso got on with the job of having temper tantrums and blocking his team-MATE in at the pits

i don't understand your words on that one

I believe you need to read the entire post <hitwall>

excuse me?

I was replying to a section of the post with the 'undeniable' fact that Hamilton had rubbed up Alonso the wrong way

I await these 'facts' because the way I saw it, it was Alonso doing most of the rubbinng

i thought my reply would make you see what section i was referring too without having to mess about quoting and cutting

<no>
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RJHSaints
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Red Andy,Aug 16 2009
06:55 PM
RJHSaints,Aug 16 2009
06:24 PM
I think it's acceptable to say this year's McLaren was a below-par effort, without actually pointing the finger of blame at anyone. Because it has been, and he is entitled to show his frustration rather than bottling it up and having it affect his driving. As long as he doesn't point fingers and turn on the team, I don't see the harm in having a bit of a whinge from time to time, especially when enduring such a dramatic fall from grace.

But who builds the car? The team, of course. It doesn't just magically show up on the factory floor, you know. <LOL>

So criticism of the car is, by extension, criticism of the team that designed and built it. Hamilton's not the only person to have done this but, as Norbert says, there are quite a few others who have stayed quiet in much worse positions.

Of course the team builds the car, but showing frustration at the way things have worked out this season, which Hamilton has done many times, is different to actually openly blaming the team, which to my knowledge he has not done.

Others have stayed quiet because they didn't say what they no doubt felt at that time. I would not condemn anyone for simply admitting disappointment over the competitiveness of their car.
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