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Ferrari 2010; Driver line up
Topic Started: Aug 12 2009, 05:27 PM (1,473 Views)
AndyW76
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Norbert,Aug 14 2009
10:36 AM
Did he? I thought he just said he'd like to drive for Ferrari, and Ferrari said, here, have lots of money as you're still going to cost less than MS when he retires.....?

<think>

I don't know then. Either Ferrari have more money than sense ($40Mpa <yikes> ) or Kimi used a jedi mind trick.
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Norbert
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I'm sure MS got more than that for his last season, but I wasn't aware Kimi got quite that much. Maybe he got a hefty pay rise in respect of his WDC?
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AndyW76
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Norbert,Aug 14 2009
11:15 AM
I'm sure MS got more than that for his last season, but I wasn't aware Kimi got quite that much. Maybe he got a hefty pay rise in respect of his WDC?

That's what the rumours were. Then again it might be different now because of exchange rates.
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ELUSIVEJIM
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I have alway thought Kimi was a better driver at Mclaren.

Yes he won his World Championship at Ferrari but he looked alot more focused at Mclaren
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Bear
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Rob,Aug 13 2009
02:13 AM
Can you come to like red? :D

Not in cars, I can't. If someone gave me a red car (even a Ferrari) I wouldn't keep it or drive it.
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Brave_Lee_Flea
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ELUSIVEJIM,Aug 14 2009
11:26 AM
I have alway thought Kimi was a better driver at Mclaren.

Yes he won his World Championship at Ferrari but he looked alot more focused at Mclaren

... until the last two seasons when he appeared to tire of having slow and/or unreliable cars and of being Ron's Golden Boy.
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RJHSaints
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How do you judge that? He was still beating Montoya pretty much throughout that period, so obviously he was not lacking in motivation. The lost motivation story is baloney made up by people who can't fathom why Raikkonen has failed to dominate F1 in a Ferrari. Several times this year he has displayed aggressive, apparently very motivated driving, not least just last race when trying to catch Hamilton. So either he is a very good actor, or the whole story about his lack of motivation is wrong. I know which I believe.
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Red Andy
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My belief is that it's a mixture of both. The main reason he trailed behind Massa last season was down to ability, not motivation - Raikkonen simply was unable to get the same out of the car as Massa did. But his inconsistency during races last year - for example, suddenly going 1-1.5s a lap faster for no reason towards the end of some GPs - is harder to explain. Some races in 2005 he was metronomic in his lap times, so why was he so off the ball in 2008? My guess is a lack of concentration, brought about by low motivation.
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RJHSaints
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Fair points. But, in 2005 the McLaren was the best (quickest) car in the field. This year and to a lesser extent last year, the Ferrari has not always been competitive, and in 2007 it was rumoured that Raikkonen was having problems with the tyres (although I personally did not agree with that at the time). In any case, while you can see certain patterns in Raikkonen's driving that might suggest a lack of motivation, it doesn't automatically follow that that is the only or even the best explanation. I suspect the problems stem from a) Massa being a better driver than most thought and b) Raikkonen enduring problems with the Ferrari's handling and in adapting his driving style.

As far as the suddenly going faster in races is concerned, we have seen that this is not necessarily a motivation issue - Button has experienced similar swings in pace with the Brawn in some recent races, apparently due to the tyres, and he has the motive of a WDC. It is entirely possible that something similar was the case with Raikkonen last season.
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Brave_Lee_Flea
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RJHSaints,Aug 14 2009
02:15 PM
How do you judge that? He was still beating Montoya pretty much throughout that period, so obviously he was not lacking in motivation. The lost motivation story is baloney made up by people who can't fathom why Raikkonen has failed to dominate F1 in a Ferrari. Several times this year he has displayed aggressive, apparently very motivated driving, not least just last race when trying to catch Hamilton. So either he is a very good actor, or the whole story about his lack of motivation is wrong. I know which I believe.

Yes, he was beating Montoya but it is well documented that Montoya had significant problems adapting to the handling of the McLaren.

Kimi's driving has lost that aggressive edge that it had until that period. I used to love watching the way he hustled his car around. That hasn't happened for some time now, bar as you say, the odd race.

Now you could be right, maybe it has nothing to do with motivation, maybe changes in tyre technology mean that is no longer the fastest way to drive but I saw in Kimi's body language both in and out of the car at that time that he couldn't wait to leave McLaren and he pretty much said so as soon as he had left. He made several references to Ron being over-controlling and it was obvious how fed up he was of his car either being too slow or too fragile (or both) to enable him to really compete for the title.

I think you are probably right in saying that Massa is better than most of us (myself included) had thought but I maintain that this Kimi Raikkonen is not the one I used to love watching and I don't think he has been that guy for longer than he has been at Ferrari.

I don't subscribe to any theory just because it is being punted around on a forum - I use the evidence of my own eyes.
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RJHSaints
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I personally think people are looking back at Kimi's McLaren years with rose-tinted glasses on, but I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree, since I can't exactly prove anything. But I don't really think Raikkonen's driving is any more or less aggressive than it used to be.
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Brave_Lee_Flea
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RJHSaints,Aug 14 2009
07:53 PM
I personally think people are looking back at Kimi's McLaren years with rose-tinted glasses on.

I'll concede that that is at least possible ..... but you know I always remember laughing with my brother that "Kimi drives an F1 car like he stole it" ... and I just don't see that any more.

Maybe it's more to do with the way technology and car and tyre design has changed. Dunno. I don't have any empirical proof either.

These days the guy that drives the most like he stole his car is Lewis and even though I find him much less objectionable this year I still can't find it within myself to like the fella even if he is a terrific driver. Which he is.
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RJHSaints
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I agree about Hamilton. He always drives the car at 101%, which is probably not the best strategy with the McLaren this season (at least until the last two GPs). I personally like him, regardless of the controversies he has been involved in.
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ELUSIVEJIM
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RJHSaints,Aug 15 2009
11:36 AM
I agree about Hamilton. He always drives the car at 101%, which is probably not the best strategy with the McLaren this season (at least until the last two GPs). I personally like him, regardless of the controversies he has been involved in.

Yes you can never question a driver who is always pushing hard.

This year in the Mclaren has been great for Lewis.

Its given him a taste of what it is like to drive a dog of a car which is always good for a driver who has had great cars

All drivers need to be grounded sometimes and i have alot more respect for Lewis now <thumbsup>
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Brave_Lee_Flea
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RJHSaints,Aug 15 2009
11:36 AM
I agree about Hamilton. He always drives the car at 101%....


... but you can't see that Kimi has not been doing this for the past few years? Or is it that you don't remember him ever doing it?

Sorry if that sounds aggressive, it's not meant to; I am interestedto hear your answer as I cannot understand how you can recognise what Lewis is doing and still think that Kimi's driving is as aggressive as it ever was.
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