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Schumacher out....
Topic Started: Aug 11 2009, 08:01 AM (1,761 Views)
AndyW76
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Jesus!

Duck and cover!

Raw nerve or what!



OK, the "hopeless not talent" comment was a slight exaggeration, though it is true that a few people on here claim Lewis is lucky as opposed to talented. Lets be frank, OK, in 2007 lewis did get some breaks and McLaren were lucky not to be punished more severely but that was pretty much balanced out by quite a few setbacks imposed on Lewis last year (need I mention spa and other rather odd penalties that were metted out by heavy handed stewardship; obviously exclusing the "red light" incident, that punishment was deserving).

Also, I feel that liegate was somewhat overstated. The simple punishment of being DQ'd should have been enough but the powers that be seem to want their pound of flesh. (yet similar incidents in the past were never followed up with disrepute charges, remember Monza 2006? The FIA effectlively endorsed Ferrari's gamesmanship).
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Norbert
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stradlin24,Aug 11 2009
03:43 PM
The fact remains, there was no punishment!

In your opinion. Just like my opinion that McLaren weren't really punished for Spygate, or Liegate. The fact remains that in all the instances referred to on this thread, the guilty parties got away with just a little slap on the wrist.
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Norbert
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AndyW76,Aug 11 2009
03:47 PM
Also, I feel that liegate was somewhat overstated. The simple punishment of being DQ'd should have been enough but the powers that be seem to want their pound of flesh.

Probably due to the fact that McLaren were on probation for having lied to the FIA about Spygate, and had been warned if they did the same again within a year then they'd get their backsides whipped into burger meat. The fact that they then went and lied to the stewards and FIA in Australia, then the FIA again at the following meeting, despite them already having on tape the evidence that McLaren could have admitted to, meant that there was not much else that could be done in the circumstances. Still, the good news is that it got rid of Ron, which means we don;t have to put up with he and Max bickering all year....
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AndyW76
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Norbert,Aug 11 2009
02:47 PM
stradlin24,Aug 11 2009
03:43 PM
The fact remains, there was no punishment!

In your opinion. Just like my opinion that McLaren weren't really punished for Spygate, or Liegate. The fact remains that in all the instances referred to on this thread, the guilty parties got away with just a little slap on the wrist.

$100M and a DQ from the Oz GP says different.
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AndyW76
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Norbert,Aug 11 2009
02:52 PM
AndyW76,Aug 11 2009
03:47 PM
Also, I feel that liegate was somewhat overstated. The simple punishment of being DQ'd should have been enough but the powers that be seem to want their pound of flesh.

Probably due to the fact that McLaren were on probation for having lied to the FIA about Spygate, and had been warned if they did the same again within a year then they'd get their backsides whipped into burger meat. The fact that they then went and lied to the stewards and FIA in Australia, then the FIA again at the following meeting, despite them already having on tape the evidence that McLaren could have admitted to, meant that there was not much else that could be done in the circumstances. Still, the good news is that it got rid of Ron, which means we don;t have to put up with he and Max bickering all year....

The shame of it is that we are still left with Max and no-one who can stand up to him. Better 2 warring parties than one dictator that attempts to destroy F1.
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Norbert
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AndyW76,Aug 11 2009
03:52 PM
$100M and a DQ from the Oz GP says different.

$100M, of which only half was required, the other was deducted from their prizemoney. Instead of the FIA's more preferred season or two ban, which would actually have been a punishment rather than a slap. As for the ban in Oz, wow, such hardship, they finished one-two, and not an artificially promoted fourth, right?
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Norbert
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AndyW76,Aug 11 2009
03:54 PM
The shame of it is that we are still left with Max and no-one who can stand up to him. Better 2 warring parties than one dictator that attempts to destroy F1.

I think that FOTA have more than replaced Ron in that respect.

<thumbsup>
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stradlin24
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Norbert,Aug 11 2009
02:47 PM
stradlin24,Aug 11 2009
03:43 PM
The fact remains, there was no punishment!

In your opinion. Just like my opinion that McLaren weren't really punished for Spygate, or Liegate. The fact remains that in all the instances referred to on this thread, the guilty parties got away with just a little slap on the wrist.

But they were punished, whether it was enough or not

I just do not see at all how Schumacher was punished for Jerez 97
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AndyW76
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Norbert,Aug 11 2009
02:55 PM
AndyW76,Aug 11 2009
03:52 PM
$100M and a DQ from the Oz GP says different.

$100M, of which only half was required, the other was deducted from their prizemoney. Instead of the FIA's more preferred season or two ban, which would actually have been a punishment rather than a slap. As for the ban in Oz, wow, such hardship, they finished one-two, and not an artificially promoted fourth, right?

Well, yeah, instead of paying out the prize money for the season and then immediately paying it back, surely it is better not to pay out the prize money in the first place and have McLaren pay the difference. The nett loss is still $100m to McLaren and a $100M net gain to the FIA, which ever way you look at it.

On the OZ dq, well, like I said before, previous cases seem to have been treated differently, like Monza 2006. McLaren aren't the first team to use the rules to their advantage unfairly and they shouldn't be singled out as if they are.
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PiquetFan
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AndyW76,Aug 11 2009
04:52 PM
$100M and a DQ from the Oz GP says different.

Andy, I don't want to rehash all of the arguments that were posted here and elsewhere, but a summary might help.

I think the point that is being made by stradlin is that the Jerez incident could (should?) quite easily have resulted in a lengthy ban for Schumacher, rather than the punishment that was meted out (removing all of his points for 1997). In that case a sporting decision was made, one that kept Schumacher racing in 1998.

A similar decision was made in deciding the punishment for Spygate. McLaren were fined, but it was a small percentage of their racing budget. If the letter of the law had been applied then McLaren could quite conceivably have been banned for 2008, and the drivers might well have lost their points as well (at least one of the drivers was obviously complicit in the affair). In Australia McLaren were (and still are) racing under a suspended sentence, and DQ was the least possible sanction that could be applied.
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AndyW76
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Norbert,Aug 11 2009
02:56 PM
AndyW76,Aug 11 2009
03:54 PM
The shame of it is that we are still left with Max and no-one who can stand up to him. Better 2 warring parties than one dictator that attempts to destroy F1.

I think that FOTA have more than replaced Ron in that respect.

<thumbsup>

Except when teams go and break ranks and cock it up for every body.
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stradlin24
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PiquetFan,Aug 11 2009
03:04 PM
AndyW76,Aug 11 2009
04:52 PM
$100M and a DQ from the Oz GP says different.

Andy, I don't want to rehash all of the arguments that were posted here and elsewhere, but a summary might help.

I think the point that is being made by stradlin is that the Jerez incident could (should?) quite easily have resulted in a lengthy ban for Schumacher, rather than the punishment that was meted out (removing all of his points for 1997). In that case a sporting decision was made, one that kept Schumacher racing in 1998.

A similar decision was made in deciding the punishment for Spygate. McLaren were fined, but it was a small percentage of their racing budget. If the letter of the law had been applied then McLaren could quite conceivably have been banned for 2008, and the drivers might well have lost their points as well (at least one of the drivers was obviously complicit in the affair). In Australia McLaren were (and still are) racing under a suspended sentence, and DQ was the least possible sanction that could be applied.

But they didn’t remove his points, he was allowed to keep all those records on his final statistics

There was no punishment
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Norbert
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Other than not being classified for an entire year.....

<hitwall>
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AndyW76
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PiquetFan,Aug 11 2009
03:04 PM
AndyW76,Aug 11 2009
04:52 PM
$100M and a DQ from the Oz GP says different.

Andy, I don't want to rehash all of the arguments that were posted here and elsewhere, but a summary might help.

I think the point that is being made by stradlin is that the Jerez incident could (should?) quite easily have resulted in a lengthy ban for Schumacher, rather than the punishment that was meted out (removing all of his points for 1997). In that case a sporting decision was made, one that kept Schumacher racing in 1998.

A similar decision was made in deciding the punishment for Spygate. McLaren were fined, but it was a small percentage of their racing budget. If the letter of the law had been applied then McLaren could quite conceivably have been banned for 2008, and the drivers might well have lost their points as well (at least one of the drivers was obviously complicit in the affair). In Australia McLaren were (and still are) racing under a suspended sentence, and DQ was the least possible sanction that could be applied.

Well, yeah, as toothless as the decision was to dock all of MS's points for 97, I do feel that it would have been a travesty for him to be banned and it would have denied us a decent championship battle in 98. But on top of that, the fact that Schumi made an ass of himself on the world stage was very much enough for me and it seemed to teach him a valuable lesson.
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stradlin24
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Norbert,Aug 11 2009
03:09 PM
Other than not being classified for an entire year.....

<hitwall>

But he wasn’t was he?! Remember when Tyrell got kicked out in the 80’s, they lost ALL their results, end of

But Schumacher’s results still count!!! The dsq is just three letters, it means nothing because in reality he kept everything he had from 1997!

There was no punishment
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