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| Renault out of Valencia | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 26 2009, 05:03 PM (1,018 Views) | |
| Red Andy | Jul 27 2009, 01:44 PM Post #31 |
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Hungary has often been a popular F1 venue with Finns and since Kubica came along a lot of Polish fans have also made the journey to go there. I imagine a lot of them are staying away because of the cost, I went to Budapest last year, loved the city, and was considering going back for the GP this time but to be honest the ticket prices are not far off what you would pay in western Europe. This in a country where pretty much everything else is very cheap. So it's not surprising that the stands are empty at the Hungaroring. |
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| timmadigan | Jul 27 2009, 01:52 PM Post #32 |
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Chief Engineer
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Before the last 7 days, i would have said this was a harsh penalty, given the stewards' history of penalties for like situations. Now, after Henry and Felipe, it's the right call. The team, the whole team involved in it, knew the tire wasn't on and was missing a safety lock and they still didn't say anything or do anything about it. It wasn't just endangering him, it was endangering every driver behind him on the track (think of Henry!). It's tough on Alonso but he can race for another team if his contract allows (Ferrari?) but Renault needs to be benched for the next race. It's time FIA stepped up and did the right thing about this. Renault knowing and carelessly risked the lives of the other race drivers and didn't say a word. They should be lucky their allowed to finish the season. |
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| Bear | Jul 27 2009, 02:16 PM Post #33 |
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Chief Engineer
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http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=338623&FS=F1 |
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| Rob | Jul 27 2009, 02:22 PM Post #34 |
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Wonder if Bernie will step in.... |
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| fordprefect | Jul 27 2009, 02:33 PM Post #35 |
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Just Married
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I agree with Tim. Renault need to be punished for this. In a week where motor racing has had one driver killed and another seriously injured by parts flying off a car, how could it be ignored? Brawn can't have known that the bolt would fail on Barry's suspension and fly off the car but Renault KNEW that they'd not secured the wheel on properly and then, even after the wheel cover had flown off and sprayed across the track - they still didn't tell Alonso to stop. Any idiot could see that the bloody wheel was gonna come off at any minute - even I was screaming that at the TV!! See, I said any idiot could see it It is hard on Alonso but then F1 is a team sport. He's not the only driver to have suffered a penalty because of the team's actions. |
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| Red Andy | Jul 27 2009, 03:09 PM Post #36 |
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I cannot agree that a severe penalty should be given out just because of the events of the past week. That's exactly the kind of knee-jerk inconsistency most people have been arguing against for years and years. The point about Brawn is that their cars were potentially unsafe yet they were allowed to start the race. I do not know of any requirement on the part of Brawn to have shown that their suspension was safe prior to racing, which would have been an appropriate response given the injury caused to Massa by an unsafe Brawn car. On the other hand, Renault are given a one race ban for Alonso's wheel nut issue. I cannot and do not believe that Renault would have released Alonso from his pit knowing that the wheel was not properly secured. It's possible that they realised as soon as Alonso was released, but by then it was already too late. You cannot reverse a car in the pit lane (Mansell was disqualified on one occasion for doing that) and once a car has left the pits it cannot be worked on by the team's mechanics. Renault could have told Alonso to retire the car immediately, but other drivers have managed to get back to the pits with loose wheels before (most recently Heidfeld in 2007, maybe Spain). Renault and Alonso were simply unlucky that the wheel worked loose before he made it back to the pits. Where Renault undoubtedly failed is that they didn't tell Alonso what the problem was, he thought he had a puncture. But is that really worth a race ban for the team? Surely a fine - or a loss of constructors' points from the next race - would be more appropriate and in keeping with similar events in the past. Seems to be the case that the stewards are happy to punish both driver and team when they feel like it, but on other occasions are quite happy to punish the team and not the driver (i.e. Spygate). I'd much prefer it if the former option was applied all the time, but as long as there is inconsistency there is cause for complaint. |
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| sportsman | Jul 27 2009, 03:12 PM Post #37 |
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Chief Engineer
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Not only was the wheel endangering the other drivers. It was endangering all the marshals, spectators and anyone else that was close to the track. Addedti which, the machanic who changed the wheel, was still holding the wheelnut retaining pin after the car had gone. |
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| fordprefect | Jul 27 2009, 03:27 PM Post #38 |
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Just Married
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I agree that others have tried to get round to the pits with loose wheels before now but as soon as the wheel cover came off they should have told him to pull over - they knew by then that the wheel wasn't secured properly. As for Brawn - as I understand from the BBC commentary, these springs have been common parts on most F1 cars in one form or another for years, so you could argue that the bolt securing them could go at any time on any car - should they all have to prove it won't fly off? It's a one off failure of a part - as can happen in any car. As I said before, Renault knew the wheel was liable to fly off - you could see it wobbling ffs! Knee jerk reactions aren't what we need but, in light of what happened the week and the day before, they should have told him to stop! I agree the penalty is severe but, as you pointed out, the stewarding is so unfair and inconsistant these days, that no-one can really complain anymore....look at some of the crap penalties handed out last season. There does need to be more consistancy in these decisions but until we get the same stewards monitoring every race that will never happen I'm afraid. |
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| Nomad | Jul 27 2009, 03:46 PM Post #39 |
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Engineer
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I would say that the team was not penalized for the mechanic failing to get the safety pin in place. They were penalized because the team did not take immediate action to prevent a danger to others. If the car was immediately stopped or slowed sufficiently to allow a safe return to the pits, it would have screwed their race but it would have stopped the danger to the driver, other drivers, officials, workers, and spectators. If someone had been hurt, injured, or killed, the team would have born the guilt because of their failure to act. It would not have been a "no harm, no foul" situation even if the car had returned safely to the pits at the end of the lap. A great number of people had been placed in jeopardy because of the failure to act by the team. Yes, it is a harsh penalty but it is one that is appropriate because of the great danger caused by the willful inaction of the team. It might stop someone from "rolling the dice" in a similar situation. |
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| slbb2611 | Jul 27 2009, 04:06 PM Post #40 |
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Refueller
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I see why the stewards have punished Renault and it is a shame that it has affected Alonso for his home race but that is life and it will also affect Piquet (or his replacement). I can see Bernie stepping in to get Alonso racing in some way otherwise the stands will be empty. Remeber last year in Barcelona the stands emptied after Alonso's engine blew up and there was something about Valencia decreasing its seating because the tickets werent selling. This picture shows how bad it could have been if the wheel had bounced over the fencing. http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6784/alonsowheel.jpg |
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| Norbert | Jul 27 2009, 04:09 PM Post #41 |
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Of course, this is the same team (takeover by Renault excepted) and team principal who knowingly removed the fuel filters from their refuelling rigs in 1994, almost incinerating Jos Verstappen (and potentially the whole pit lane) in the process.
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| Norbert | Jul 27 2009, 04:14 PM Post #42 |
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To be fair, at that point, the wheel was travelling at a speed that would have made it easy enough to avoid. However, that's not the point of course. It was obvious it would fall off right from the second he left the pits and it started wobbling around. It's not like the suspension had broken, where you could get away with going a little faster as the wheel would still be tethered. it was completely unrestrained, with only the friction between the huge brake duct/hub and the rim keeping it in place. Imagine five years ago - it would have fallen off before he had time to get to the end of the pit lane! |
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| slbb2611 | Jul 27 2009, 04:31 PM Post #43 |
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Refueller
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The worst part is that they didnt tell Alonso as I dont think he would have been able to see it out of the car and although he did slow down I think he probably would have been more cautious had he known that it wasnt properly secured. Also coming back to the Alonso/Ferrari thing, even if it does in some way happen Alonso's only going to have 3 practice sessions to get used the car and the way the team works so I really cant see it happening. |
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| Rob | Jul 27 2009, 04:34 PM Post #44 |
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It could have been dangerous, but as being in that situation you have to have your head on a swivel. During the times I have been right on the wall like that I make it a point never to look at one place for more than a few seconds. |
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| Lex | Jul 27 2009, 06:08 PM Post #45 |
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Driver
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No one has mentioned that Nando was released before all mechanics had indicated all clear. That is a huge failure in their system. I think it's a knee-jerk reaction, after all Alonso had slowed considerably, however, the stewards had to do something. A ban is unfair but they couldn't dock them points could they! |
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12:41 AM Jul 11