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Kovalainen; Must perform
Topic Started: Jun 14 2009, 12:59 PM (489 Views)
TheCompleteGuitarist
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Funny thing about that Brawn. Alonso could be driving it right now. Maybe he didn't have the balls to take the risk?
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dazzerjp
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ELUSIVEJIM,Jun 18 2009
10:17 PM
Hamilton is happy to have Kov in the team for 2010.

Wonder why <sarcasm>

hamilton was happy to have and beat Alonso.

Heikki is a piece of cake in comparison

I suspect Hamilton would prefer a team mate closer to his own skill level, someone like Kubica.

Dont think Vettel would be too much trouble for Lewis.

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RJHSaints
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dazzerjp,Jun 18 2009
03:05 PM
I suspect Hamilton would prefer a team mate closer to his own skill level, someone like Kubica.

Dont think Vettel would be too much trouble for Lewis.

I disagree quite strongly there, Kubica would if anything provide less of a challenge than Vettel. He has never been able to produce consistently, with the result that he has on the whole been bested by Heidfeld over the course of his BMW career.

Vettel on the other hand is young and makes mistakes (like Lewis you might say), but seems to have all the qualities necessary to win world championships and lead a team.
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dazzerjp
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RJHSaints,Jun 18 2009
11:30 PM
dazzerjp,Jun 18 2009
03:05 PM
I suspect Hamilton would prefer a team mate closer to his own skill level, someone like Kubica.

Dont think Vettel would be too much trouble for Lewis.

I disagree quite strongly there, Kubica would if anything provide less of a challenge than Vettel. He has never been able to produce consistently, with the result that he has on the whole been bested by Heidfeld over the course of his BMW career.

Vettel on the other hand is young and makes mistakes (like Lewis you might say), but seems to have all the qualities necessary to win world championships and lead a team.

Lest not forgot 2008, for Kubica. Whatever the reason, Kubica drove like a champ in the company of champs. Had BMW given 100% toward his campaign, he would of probably won it.

Whilst Vettel is good, he is being matched by his teammate, and some would say that the Trukish race, Webber began to turn the tables.

Using this years BMW as part of the equation isnt really valid, as the car pre-Trukey was a complete dog. So, whilst Kubica completely eclipsed Nick last year, the same can not be said of Seb, who has an comparable teammate.

Hence, my belief that Kubica is more proven than Vettel
Anyway, my Top Teammates would be

1> Kubica
2> Alonso
3> Webber - as he has shown recently, a teammate who will not lie down for this months bright new hope
4> Button/Massa
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ELUSIVEJIM
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dazzerjp,Jun 18 2009
03:07 PM
RJHSaints,Jun 18 2009
11:30 PM
dazzerjp,Jun 18 2009
03:05 PM
I suspect Hamilton would prefer a team mate closer to his own skill level, someone like Kubica.

Dont think Vettel would be too much trouble for Lewis.

I disagree quite strongly there, Kubica would if anything provide less of a challenge than Vettel. He has never been able to produce consistently, with the result that he has on the whole been bested by Heidfeld over the course of his BMW career.

Vettel on the other hand is young and makes mistakes (like Lewis you might say), but seems to have all the qualities necessary to win world championships and lead a team.

Lest not forgot 2008, for Kubica. Whatever the reason, Kubica drove like a champ in the company of champs. Had BMW given 100% toward his campaign, he would of probably won it.

Whilst Vettel is good, he is being matched by his teammate, and some would say that the Trukish race, Webber began to turn the tables.

Using this years BMW as part of the equation isnt really valid, as the car pre-Trukey was a complete dog. So, whilst Kubica completely eclipsed Nick last year, the same can not be said of Seb, who has an comparable teammate.

Hence, my belief that Kubica is more proven than Vettel
Anyway, my Top Teammates would be

1> Kubica
2> Alonso
3> Webber - as he has shown recently, a teammate who will not lie down for this months bright new hope
4> Button/Massa

Just wish the whole grid had Brawns for one race so we can see who is the best <roflmao>

Lewis and Kubica or Lewis and Vettel would be a dream team for Mclaren.

For me in both cases it would be VERY close.

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GordonB
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dazzerjp,Jun 18 2009
03:07 PM
Lest not forgot 2008, for Kubica. Whatever the reason, Kubica drove like a champ in the company of champs. Had BMW given 100% toward his campaign, he would of probably won it.

Sorry but that is complete tosh.

He drove well, in a good but not outstanding car. BMW were not able to give him a better car - this year they have said that they spent too much time developing last years car - and had he won the championship it would have been a travesty! We had enough problems with people complaining because Hamilton had fewer race wins than Massa.
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RJHSaints
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dazzerjp,Jun 18 2009
04:07 PM
RJHSaints,Jun 18 2009
11:30 PM
dazzerjp,Jun 18 2009
03:05 PM
I suspect Hamilton would prefer a team mate closer to his own skill level, someone like Kubica.

Dont think Vettel would be too much trouble for Lewis.

I disagree quite strongly there, Kubica would if anything provide less of a challenge than Vettel. He has never been able to produce consistently, with the result that he has on the whole been bested by Heidfeld over the course of his BMW career.

Vettel on the other hand is young and makes mistakes (like Lewis you might say), but seems to have all the qualities necessary to win world championships and lead a team.

Lest not forgot 2008, for Kubica. Whatever the reason, Kubica drove like a champ in the company of champs. Had BMW given 100% toward his campaign, he would of probably won it.

Whilst Vettel is good, he is being matched by his teammate, and some would say that the Trukish race, Webber began to turn the tables.

Using this years BMW as part of the equation isnt really valid, as the car pre-Trukey was a complete dog. So, whilst Kubica completely eclipsed Nick last year, the same can not be said of Seb, who has an comparable teammate.

Hence, my belief that Kubica is more proven than Vettel
Anyway, my Top Teammates would be

1> Kubica
2> Alonso
3> Webber - as he has shown recently, a teammate who will not lie down for this months bright new hope
4> Button/Massa

The last five races or so of 2008 Kubica was back to being beaten by Heidfeld again. He drove excellently early on in 2008, making few real errors, but once Heidfeld finally got to grips with the car he was eclipsed again.

BMW did give 100% on the car, but they failed to improve it sufficiently to keep pace with McLaren and Ferrari.

Bearing in mind that last year in spite of Heidfeld's problems with the car and particularly in qualifying, he still only finished 15 points behind Kubica, compared with finishing 22 points ahead in 2007 and currently 6-2 up this season (and 8-6 up in 2006, when they raced as team-mates after Villeneuve left two-thirds of the way through the year), you would have to say that over the course of their BMW careers Heidfeld has shown himself to be the better points scorer if not actually the faster on pure raw pace.

Vettel would have finished ahead of Webber in Catalunya and arguably Istanbul had different strategies not conspired to leave him behind at the end of the second/third stops. So I think Vettel has outperformed Webber this year, but in any case being matched by Webber would not have been proof that Vettel is not up to it, since Webber has beaten all his team-mates ever.
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dazzerjp
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GordonB,Jun 19 2009
12:57 AM
dazzerjp,Jun 18 2009
03:07 PM
Lest not forgot 2008, for Kubica. Whatever the reason, Kubica drove like a champ in the company of champs. Had BMW given 100% toward his campaign, he would of probably won it.

Sorry but that is complete tosh.

He drove well, in a good but not outstanding car. BMW were not able to give him a better car - this year they have said that they spent too much time developing last years car - and had he won the championship it would have been a travesty! We had enough problems with people complaining because Hamilton had fewer race wins than Massa.


With the exception of an understandable mistake at Silverstone, Kubica drove a pretty faultless season..

Its not utter tosh. Its the facts of the 2008 season.
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GordonB
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dazzerjp,Jun 18 2009
04:11 PM
GordonB,Jun 19 2009
12:57 AM
dazzerjp,Jun 18 2009
03:07 PM
Lest not forgot 2008, for Kubica. Whatever the reason, Kubica drove like a champ in the company of champs. Had BMW given 100% toward his campaign, he would of probably won it.

Sorry but that is complete tosh.

He drove well, in a good but not outstanding car. BMW were not able to give him a better car - this year they have said that they spent too much time developing last years car - and had he won the championship it would have been a travesty! We had enough problems with people complaining because Hamilton had fewer race wins than Massa.


With the exception of an understandable mistake at Silverstone, Kubica drove a pretty faultless season..

Its not utter tosh. Its the facts of the 2008 season.

With the greatest respect, what uninformed, dismissive and poorly worded reply.

Is that your coat?

Faultless does not equal fantastic. I agree that Kubica didn't make many mistakes last year, but the "tosh" was that it was somehow BMW's fault that he didn't win the championship.

Kubica drove pretty well last year in a car that was pretty good. That does not mean that he is automatically a star. Coulthard managed to finish 2nd in the WDC - I think he was pretty good, but it doesn't surprise me or offend me that he never won the WDC. It wouldn't surprise or offend me if Kubica never won it either - I think this year he's shown that he's not "all that".

I'm uninformed? yeah. right. whatever.
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Brave_Lee_Flea
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ELUSIVEJIM,Jun 18 2009
01:17 PM

I am really suprised that Mclaren have not tried to sign Vettel or another big driver.


Really? They kept hold of DC for how long? And you're surprised?

I don't think you are really.
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dazzerjp
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RJHSaints,Jun 19 2009
01:04 AM

The last five races or so of 2008 Kubica was back to being beaten by Heidfeld again. He drove excellently early on in 2008, making few real errors, but once Heidfeld finally got to grips with the car he was eclipsed again.

BMW did give 100% on the car, but they failed to improve it sufficiently to keep pace with McLaren and Ferrari.

Bearing in mind that last year in spite of Heidfeld's problems with the car and particularly in qualifying, he still only finished 15 points behind Kubica, compared with finishing 22 points ahead in 2007 and currently 6-2 up this season (and 8-6 up in 2006, when they raced as team-mates after Villeneuve left two-thirds of the way through the year), you would have to say that over the course of their BMW careers Heidfeld has shown himself to be the better points scorer if not actually the faster on pure raw pace.

Vettel would have finished ahead of Webber in Catalunya and arguably Istanbul had different strategies not conspired to leave him behind at the end of the second/third stops. So I think Vettel has outperformed Webber this year, but in any case being matched by Webber would not have been proof that Vettel is not up to it, since Webber has beaten all his team-mates ever.

the last fives races were 2 Kubica, 3 Heidfield

So not really being beaten back.

BMW did continue developing their but they also focused more on heidlfield in the later parts of the season to help hm with his quali pace. (see an old BMW thread on here for details)

The difference between the two; Kubica was a contender. Heidlfield never was in 2008.
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dazzerjp
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GordonB,Jun 19 2009
01:38 AM
dazzerjp,Jun 18 2009
04:11 PM
GordonB,Jun 19 2009
12:57 AM
dazzerjp,Jun 18 2009
03:07 PM
Lest not forgot 2008, for Kubica. Whatever the reason, Kubica drove like a champ in the company of champs. Had BMW given 100% toward his campaign, he would of probably won it.

Sorry but that is complete tosh.

He drove well, in a good but not outstanding car. BMW were not able to give him a better car - this year they have said that they spent too much time developing last years car - and had he won the championship it would have been a travesty! We had enough problems with people complaining because Hamilton had fewer race wins than Massa.


With the exception of an understandable mistake at Silverstone, Kubica drove a pretty faultless season..

Its not utter tosh. Its the facts of the 2008 season.

With the greatest respect, what uninformed, dismissive and poorly worded reply.

Is that your coat?

Faultless does not equal fantastic. I agree that Kubica didn't make many mistakes last year, but the "tosh" was that it was somehow BMW's fault that he didn't win the championship.

Kubica drove pretty well last year in a car that was pretty good. That does not mean that he is automatically a star. Coulthard managed to finish 2nd in the WDC - I think he was pretty good, but it doesn't surprise me or offend me that he never won the WDC. It wouldn't surprise or offend me if Kubica never won it either - I think this year he's shown that he's not "all that".

I'm uninformed? yeah. right. whatever.

Yes, uninformed.

Check the archives and you will see that BMW did not give 100% towards Kubica;s title challenge in the later part of the season, in the same way Maccer did for Lewis.

Whatever what?

Shall I talk to the hand cause the face isnt listening or some such?



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