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Car or Driver?; Which makes the difference?
Topic Started: Jun 11 2009, 08:45 AM (382 Views)
Alien_SAP_Fiend
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Last year and the year before that, Jenson Button was nowhere, squabbling with Rubens for the wooden spoon, while last year and the year before, Lewis Hamilton was grabbing headlines, winning races and championships.

Now things are totally reversed. It's Lewis who's struggling to get out of Q1 and Jenson who's breaking records and starting to make Micael Schumacher's achievements look a little average.

So, what's changed? Same driver, same team (with a few crucial changes at the top)... different car.

Fenando Alonso has been dragging his sh!tbox Renault into Q3 quite consistently and has a few points to his name, but he hasn't a hope of winning another WDC until he gets into a decent car.

Is it all about the car? Could the Farce India drivers get into a Brawn and do what Jenson has done, with the same amount of time behind the wheel? It's true that Rubens is not doing as well as Jenson, but he's been ragged and unlucky, perhaps showing his age. I'd like to believe that it's all about the driver, but it's becoming more and more evident that even a fairly average driver will shine, given a good enough piece of kit (relative to the other machinery on the grid, of course).
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Rams
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80% car 20% driver IMO

It's always been that way though
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Norbert
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Agreed. Most drivers could get in a Brawn and win races. Likewise, most drivers could get into a Force India and languish in Q1 for most of the time. A few drivers can make a difference in naff cars, like Alonso and Schumacher, but these results even for them will be few and far between. I would expect these two to have won all the races this year if they had a Brawn, no matter who their teammate is/was. However, I wouldn't expect Jenson to get better results in an FA than the current drivers based on his performances with the old Honda. He was equally matched with Barrichello then, and in fact at times bettered by him. In a decent car however, he clearly is more than a match for Rubens. This may just be that the car suits Button more than him, but it is more sensible to have a car that suits one driver great than to be indifferent for both.
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AndyW76
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It really depends how bad a cars is. Look at this years McLaren. It is truely a shocker. I doubt that anyone could do much better.

Alonso in the renault is working wonders but I suspect that the renault is somewhat better than the McLaren, especially now that they have abandoned KERS.
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Rob
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AndyW76,Jun 11 2009
08:30 AM
Alonso in the renault is working wonders but I suspect that the renault is somewhat better than the McLaren, especially now that they have abandoned KERS.

The fact that Piquet was fighting Lewis shows that. <thumbsup>
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RJHSaints
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I dunno, Kovalainen has been generally around the pace of Piquet (slightly better sometimes) and is a good marker for Alonso-Hamilton comparisons in my view. In fact Heikki has occasionally been better than Hamilton this year, unlike last year where he sometimes outqualified him but almost never beat him in an actual race.

I suspect Alonso is simply driving slightly better than Hamilton in a poor car......of course, he has more experience of this though with his Minardi days and last year.
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AndyW76
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RJHSaints,Jun 11 2009
02:24 PM
I dunno, Kovalainen has been generally around the pace of Piquet (slightly better sometimes) and is a good marker for Alonso-Hamilton comparisons in my view. In fact Heikki has occasionally been better than Hamilton this year, unlike last year where he sometimes outqualified him but almost never beat him in an actual race.

I suspect Alonso is simply driving slightly better than Hamilton in a poor car......of course, he has more experience of this though with his Minardi days and last year.

Lewis hasn't been at the back in all the races, only at the high speed circuits. In fact, he was looking good in Monaco practice until a rather uncharacteristic error ruined his quallie.

The McLaren performance is very much dependent on the circuit where as the renault does show some consistency.
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Red Andy
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I think all the cars are being governed by the circuits this year. McLaren are good at low-speed circuits but rubbish on the high-speed ones because they are fundamentally lacking downforce. Red Bull have lots of downforce but poor traction, so the situation for them is reversed. The Renault is probably a slightly better car than the McLaren at the moment, but the Renault engine isn't as good as the Mercedes so that situation can easily change at circuits with long straights requiring lots of power. Brawn are the only team that have been consistently good all year.
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Alliblue
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Alien_SAP_Fiend,Jun 11 2009
08:45 AM
I'd like to believe that it's all about the driver, but it's becoming more and more evident that even a fairly average driver will shine, given a good enough piece of kit (relative to the other machinery on the grid, of course).
It's not all about the car obviously, any person off the street couldn't get in the best car and win, but it's very very much about the car, Force Indias for example do not have a hope of winning a race with the current car, unless all the other cars ran into major problems, no matter who they have behind the wheel

Alien_SAP_Fiend,Jun 11 2009
08:45 AM
Could the Farce India drivers get into a Brawn and do what Jenson has done, with the same amount of time behind the wheel?
I don't know, it's debatable, it would depend on factors such as teammate etc, but not inconcivable, they certainly could have won the last race for example

as for Lewis this year he's getting a taste of what it's like to be almost every other driver on the grid, and it can only do him good
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AndyW76
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Alliblue,Jun 12 2009
01:56 AM
Alien_SAP_Fiend,Jun 11 2009
08:45 AM
I'd like to believe that it's all about the driver, but it's becoming more and more evident that even a fairly average driver will shine, given a good enough piece of kit (relative to the other machinery on the grid, of course).
It's not all about the car obviously, any person off the street couldn't get in the best car and win, but it's very very much about the car, Force Indias for example do not have a hope of winning a race with the current car, unless all the other cars ran into major problems, no matter who they have behind the wheel

Alien_SAP_Fiend,Jun 11 2009
08:45 AM
Could the Farce India drivers get into a Brawn and do what Jenson has done, with the same amount of time behind the wheel?
I don't know, it's debatable, it would depend on factors such as teammate etc, but not inconcivable, they certainly could have won the last race for example

as for Lewis this year he's getting a taste of what it's like to be almost every other driver on the grid, and it can only do him good

Lets be fair, OK, Lewis hasn't had to struggle before but quite a few top drivers have never had to either. Look at Schumacher, he was always considtently in a top third car throughout his career, even in the early days at ferrari. Prost never had to struggle except for his 1991 disaster but even then he wasn't a tailender. The one thing that I will say about this year is that Lewis will benefit from it, learning to deal with improving a poor car and handling difficult situations. He will come out of this experience a wiser and stronger competitor.


On the subject of best car always wins and that any current F1 driver could win in a top car, this ethos isn't strictly true. Look at 1999, the Ferrari was the superior car and the Championship was schumi's for the taking (lets face it, he was looking pretty good by midseason) until one fateful day at silverstone. Despite having the best car in the field, Irvine made a real meal of the championship run and blew his big chance.
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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AndyW76,Jun 12 2009
09:16 AM
Despite having the best car in the field, Irvine made a real meal of the championship run and blew his big chance.

The problem of running a number two driver and only backing one driver. Serves themselves right in a way.
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Alien_SAP_Fiend
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AndyW76,Jun 12 2009
09:16 AM
Lets be fair, OK, Lewis hasn't had to struggle before but quite a few top drivers have never had to either.

Senna spent most of his career driving the wheels off of cars with dog-like qualities, apart from some of the time he was at Mclaren, when they were untouchable. Mansell, too (to a degree).

Lewis just has to be patient. Next year's Macca will be a rocket.
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John
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TheCompleteGuitarist,Jun 12 2009
01:19 PM
AndyW76,Jun 12 2009
09:16 AM
Despite having the best car in the field, Irvine made a real meal of the championship run and blew his big chance.

The problem of running a number two driver and only backing one driver. Serves themselves right in a way.

Oh I don't know 1999 ended exactly how Ferrari wanted it to end... not to mention myself
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AndyW76
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Alien_SAP_Fiend,Jun 12 2009
12:45 PM
AndyW76,Jun 12 2009
09:16 AM
Lets be fair, OK, Lewis hasn't had to struggle before but quite a few top drivers have never had to either.

Senna spent most of his career driving the wheels off of cars with dog-like qualities, apart from some of the time he was at Mclaren, when they were untouchable. Mansell, too (to a degree).

Lewis just has to be patient. Next year's Macca will be a rocket.

Lets hope so. I think McLaren have to see this year as development from now on. I think that it will be a huge benefit to Lewis's maturity as a driver.
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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John,Jun 12 2009
12:47 PM
TheCompleteGuitarist,Jun 12 2009
01:19 PM
AndyW76,Jun 12 2009
09:16 AM
Despite having the best car in the field, Irvine made a real meal of the championship run and blew his big chance.

The problem of running a number two driver and only backing one driver. Serves themselves right in a way.

Oh I don't know 1999 ended exactly how Ferrari wanted it to end... not to mention myself

Fair enough, I was never really a big fan of Irvine.
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