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Fifth Best driver in F1; ever...
Topic Started: Jun 9 2009, 04:51 AM (800 Views)
flood1
Chief Engineer
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Clark was a rookie at Indy in 1963 and he finished 2nd behind parnelli jones. He dnf in 1964 because of the F1 Dunlops and he won in 1965.
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Norbert
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Graham Hill was the Indy 500 rookie winner....

<thumbsup>
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John
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Graham Hill is the only driver to win the Triple Crown of Motorsport winning the Indianapolis 500, the 24 Hours of Le Mans and the Monaco Grand Prix... Given he was a double WDC as well that must give his at shot of being in the top 5 <think>
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Pasta
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OK I am going with Rob on the top 4. As to number 5 I think it was Norbert who named Alonso. I am going to agree with that, even though I only started to like him this year.

I don't know exactly what happened to him in the year he and Hamilton joined together. Maybe he was distracted by the lack of attention. But even though he was proven to be a cheater in the spygate scandal (that is willing to use stolen technology) it did show how much effort he puts into research.

Now I agree he has only won two WDCs. He will win more. He is now much more mature than his competitors. He knows how to get the points. He can get more out of a car than the car is worth, and without making silly mistakes that - say - Lewis does out of frustration perhaps. He will get a good car again. Maybe Renault or more likely Ferrari. I think he will win two more titles, and contribute to building the car.
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dazzerjp
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Jim Clark for me. From what I have seen he was just a pure natural.

Definitely not Fonsie. Not yet, anyway.

Greatness is awe-inspiring. I cant think of more than 1 or 2 occassions from Fonsie.

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Whity
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dazzerjp,Jun 12 2009
01:57 AM
Jim Clark for me. From what I have seen he was just a pure natural.

Definitely not Fonsie. Not yet, anyway.

Greatness is awe-inspiring. I cant think of more than 1 or 2 occassions from Fonsie.

Im a little confused dazzer, are you saying Jim Clark is your pick for 5th best driver? if so who is your top 4?
Or are you saying that you believe Clark to be the GOAT?
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dazzerjp
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Whity,Jun 12 2009
07:30 PM
dazzerjp,Jun 12 2009
01:57 AM
Jim Clark for me. From what I have seen he was just a pure natural.

Definitely not Fonsie. Not yet, anyway.

Greatness is awe-inspiring. I cant think of more than 1 or 2 occassions from Fonsie.

Im a little confused dazzer, are you saying Jim Clark is your pick for 5th best driver? if so who is your top 4?
Or are you saying that you believe Clark to be the GOAT?

Fifth Best driver in F1, ever...

the clue, as always, is in the topic.
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Red Andy
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I suppose the question that should be asked, then, is who is in your top 4?
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Whity
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Red Andy,Jun 12 2009
03:59 PM
I suppose the question that should be asked, then, is who is in your top 4?

i thought i did ask that :( lol
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flood1
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You guys will hate this response, but I rate them based on the rules and formats followed in their era. It is even more subjective than what we normally tend to do. I can easily rate the best and second best driver in an era this way, but I cannot compare Clark (who is my number 1 ever) with Schu (who ranks 7th ever).

Schu is first in his era, but not even on my radar historically. Senna did not race Clark. Ascari did not race Prost. Fangio did not race Stewart, etc. Schu did not race anybody but Mika.

To rank them is strictly opinion. Alonso vs. Schu, Hamilton, Hakkinen, Hill, Villeneuve is quite easy.

So, stick to what you know and do not compare Damon Hill to Phil Hill. I personally feel that they are the two WDCs that deserve it the least.

But, I cannot compare them side by side. Oh, and I forgot Nige.

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dazzerjp
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Whity,Jun 13 2009
05:58 AM
Red Andy,Jun 12 2009
03:59 PM
I suppose the question that should be asked, then, is who is in your top 4?

i thought i did ask that :( lol

In the years that I have watched F1 only I'd say

1. Schmacher
As much as it pains me to say, he was almost faultless and I can recall numerous awe-inspiring moments from him. A great driver if not a great man

2. Senna
A great man who I disliked at the time as he was Nigel's arch-rival. But a nonetheless, a perfect example of an idol. I can picture the statue of him, even if one doesn't exist.

3. Alonso/Hamilton
Tied. Alonso for his amazing driving stlye in 2005 and 2006. He seemed to invented a whole new way of taking corners, almost like he was playing a computer game. Proabably the most exciting onboard cameras laps Ive ever seen. Also, for dethroning MS.
Lewis becuase of 2007 and to a lesser extent 2008. I will never tire of rewatching 2007 - ok, Ill be honest I cant bring myself to watch China and Brazil.

4. Damon Hill
Not only cause he was British, but because of the way he conducted himself. A gentleman of a bygone era driving in a world of sharks. Hill was the perfect foil to the robotic MS. And for those that try to hold true to the corthinan motto of "it's not the winning that matters, but the taking part" and how one conducts oneself rather than the win at all costs philosophy of Senna and MS, then Hill is a great.

Nige should be mentioned as well, but Ive run out of numbers and I dont think Nige fully capatilsed on his talent as he was as great as Senna, but Nigel's personailty faults held him back like an elephant on his shoulder.

This is my list based on the thoery of flood1 from above and however foolish, is just my opinion.
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Hissing Sid
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So if we have he top four asFangio, Clark, Senna, and Shumi the 5th IMO should be Stirling Moss ...

<wave>
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Brave_Lee_Flea
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dazzerjp,Jun 13 2009
02:01 AM

4. Damon Hill
Not only cause he was British, but because of the way he conducted himself. A gentleman of a bygone era driving in a world of sharks. Hill was the perfect foil to the robotic MS. And for those that try to hold true to the corthinan motto of "it's not the winning that matters, but the taking part" and how one conducts oneself rather than the win at all costs philosophy of Senna and MS, then Hill is a great.

Now I don't often agree with you - and on this point I still don't agree with you!

Don't get me wrong I totally agree with all that you say about the nature of the man which is why Damon is one of my favourite drivers ever but I still couldn't include him in my list of top 5 greatest drivers.

Limiting myself to drivers that I have seen Id go with something like this:


1) Senna
2) Prost
3) Schumacher
4) Nigel
5) Alonso

I put Senna and Prost above Schumacher because they effectively shared their titles in an era when there were two great drivers, often fighting it out in equal machinery.

Despite the numbers Schumi had the advantage of there really not being any other great driver in his era (although that might have been different had Senna lived) and he benefited more than the guys above him from consistently having the best machinery.

Nigel for me gets it above Alonso because although he has less titles he was desperately unlucky not to have more, his driving style was magnificent to watch and you have to admire him for winning a title over in the states.

I'm sure Lewis will end up on my list soon but he has to be demoted for throwing the title away in his rookie year.

I'd like to find room too for Mika but I don't think he would have beaten any of the guys above in a straight fight.
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Whity
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dazzerjp,Jun 13 2009
02:01 AM

3. Alonso/Hamilton
Tied. Alonso for his amazing driving stlye in 2005 and 2006. He seemed to invented a whole new way of taking corners, almost like he was playing a computer game. Proabably the most exciting onboard cameras laps Ive ever seen. Also, for dethroning MS.
Lewis becuase of 2007 and to a lesser extent 2008. I will never tire of rewatching 2007 - ok, Ill be honest I cant bring myself to watch China and Brazil.

Ok maybe im being a little thick here but i thought you previously said clark was your number 5 and alonso didnt come close yet - but then you have alonso in your top four?

Not criticising but merely looking for a little clarification for my frazled brain.
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Whity
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Petra Lead,Jun 13 2009
07:52 AM

I'd like to find room too for Mika but I don't think he would have beaten any of the guys above in a straight fight.

I have to disagree with you there on out right race pace i think mika could have lived with the best of the best.

I do think that over the course of a season in equal machinery he may have ended up 2nd to the drivers you have mentioned but of the drivers i have seen he was as talented and quick as anyone.

And remember he had that horrific accident in adelade without which i think he may have won more than 2 titles.
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