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Mark Webber - Most underated driver
Topic Started: Jun 8 2009, 08:39 PM (911 Views)
TheCompleteGuitarist
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Rams,Jun 9 2009
05:42 PM
Mike Gascoyne never worked for Williams

Probably the best example of his strategic flair would be the 2007 European GP, when Markus Winklehock ended up 45 seconds ahead of the entire field on his debut in a Spyker!

<roflmao> yes I remember that, but it was hardly great judgement, probably just a huge amount of luck.
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Rob
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TheCompleteGuitarist,Jun 9 2009
12:44 PM
Rams,Jun 9 2009
05:42 PM
Mike Gascoyne never worked for Williams

Probably the best example of his strategic flair would be the 2007 European GP, when Markus Winklehock ended up 45 seconds ahead of the entire field on his debut in a Spyker!

<roflmao> yes I remember that, but it was hardly great judgement, probably just a huge amount of luck.

Good weatherman.
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Hissing Sid
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stradlin24,Jun 9 2009
02:26 PM
There’s something of the Nick Heidfeld about Webber in my opinion

Good drivers and get good results but not in that top class

+1

<wave>
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dazzerjp
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Hissing Sid,Jun 10 2009
05:57 AM
stradlin24,Jun 9 2009
02:26 PM
There’s something of the Nick Heidfeld about Webber in my opinion

Good drivers and get good results but not in that top class

+1

<wave>

And for me, at the moment, Vettel has the air of Alesi.

However, I have always disliked Webber since his Jag days, and whilst he wouldnt make my list of the top 10 favorite drivers of the current batch, he is driving a very mature drive this year.

In that, his teammate is getting the limelight, the addulation; but Webber is
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Lord Tau
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Rams,Jun 9 2009
06:42 PM
Mike Gascoyne never worked for Williams

Probably the best example of his strategic flair would be the 2007 European GP, when Markus Winklehock ended up 45 seconds ahead of the entire field on his debut in a Spyker!

Ha! I remember thinking at the start "hee hee, the new Spyker guy's wussed out and is going to start from the pits!"
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Monty
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TheCompleteGuitarist,Jun 9 2009
05:41 PM
Rob,Jun 9 2009
03:51 PM
stradlin24,Jun 9 2009
08:26 AM
There’s something of the Nick Heidfeld about Webber in my opinion

Good drivers and get good results but not in that top class

Good comparrison.

Sorry but I have to completely disagree. Some races I'm not even sure Heidfeld was racing.

Likewise Webber, neither have won any GP's both have never had top class cars, both were very similarly matched when they were teamates. They are very similar.
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Craze_b0i
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Returning to the Webber argument, I have consistently put Webber in my top 10 drivers of each season. Usually around 6th or 7th I believe. I think people often pay too close attention to the championship table, which doesn't account for car performance or reliability issues. So I agree that he has been underated. Just as Button was underated in the years when Honda were screwing up.
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RJHSaints
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Rams,

I'd make it 3-2 to Vettel rather than 4-1 to Webber this year. In Spain, Webber only beat Vettel because Massa's supreme defensive driving and tactical advantage held him up long enough for Webber to take advantage and beat Vettel in the race. In Turkey, too, I feel there was a question mark because Vettel switched to a three-stop. Had he stuck with a two-stop he would almost certainly have beaten Webber.

OK, the results will show that Webber finished ahead of Vettel in both races but in determining who was actually the better driver over the course of the weekend, it seems harsh to judge on results which were manufactured by conditions largely outside the drivers' control.

That aside I tend to agree that Webber is under-rated by many......he has beaten every team-mate he's ever had, with the possible exception of Heidfeld with whom he was nip-and-tuck, and could well beat Vettel in the points this year, even in he is probably not as quick. But also let's remember the adversity he has overcome to even be here at the moment, he always manages to perform in difficult circumstances. For me, that makes him a better all-round driver than our current championship leader, with whom you compared him at the start of this thread.
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GordonB
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RJHSaints,Jun 10 2009
03:49 PM
In Turkey, too, I feel there was a question mark because Vettel switched to a three-stop. Had he stuck with a two-stop he would almost certainly have beaten Webber.

I don't wish to be picky (all right, yes I do), but Vettel was always on a 3 stop, Webber was always on a 2 stop. Red Bull were criticised for NOT switching Vettel to a 2 stop when he went behind on the first lap - they've since defended that by saying it was their only chance for a win, and it didn't cost the team any points, it just cost Vettel his 2nd place. From the team's point of view, I think they were right.
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RJHSaints
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OK, but the points still stands (roughly). Vettel was quicker, and on equal strategies would probably have beaten Webber, indeed had he been able to get ahead of Button might still have beaten Webber. Although I guess he did make the mistake on the first lap which probably ws the deciding factor in losing him the race. Still, I think Vettel has generally had the upper hand this year.
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GordonB
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RJHSaints,Jun 10 2009
04:45 PM
Still, I think Vettel has generally had the upper hand this year.

Thoroughly agree with that!

<thumbsup>
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Rams
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RJHSaints,Jun 10 2009
04:49 PM
Massa's supreme defensive driving

LOL.

Come on, he had KERS and Barcelona sees one overtaking manourve every 10 years.

Gilles Villeneuve at Spain, THAT was supreme defenisve driving.
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Hissing Sid
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RJHSaints,Jun 10 2009
05:45 PM
OK, but the points still stands (roughly). Vettel was quicker, and on equal strategies would probably have beaten Webber, indeed had he been able to get ahead of Button might still have beaten Webber. Although I guess he did make the mistake on the first lap which probably ws the deciding factor in losing him the race. Still, I think Vettel has generally had the upper hand this year.

Fuel corrected Webber would have been ahead of Vettel in quali...I think Webber did a great job last weekend ...

When Webber finished ahead of Seb in Barcelona , James Allen said you could have cut the atmosphere with a knife as the favoured son was beaten by his teammate ...

As both drivers are very close on points it will be interesting to see if there are any team orders coming into play for the rest of the season as they take the battle to Brawn....?

:)
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dazzerjp
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Hissing Sid,Jun 11 2009
05:06 AM
RJHSaints,Jun 10 2009
05:45 PM
OK, but the points still stands (roughly). Vettel was quicker, and on equal strategies would probably have beaten Webber, indeed had he been able to get ahead of Button might still have beaten Webber. Although I guess he did make the mistake on the first lap which probably ws the deciding factor in losing him the race. Still, I think Vettel has generally had the upper hand this year.

Fuel corrected Webber would have been ahead of Vettel in quali...I think Webber did a great job last weekend ...

When Webber finished ahead of Seb in Barcelona , James Allen said you could have cut the atmosphere with a knife as the favoured son was beaten by his teammate ...

... which is one of Mark's strongest attributes. He wont lie down and take up the a----, excuse my French, a la Rubens, Heikki.

I cant see Webber ever playing second fiddle.
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Alien_SAP_Fiend
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08:39 PM
Australia:  Vettel had a 50/50 collision with Kubica and Webber got punted off by Barrichello.  Call that a no score.

Malaysia: Despite a few dodgy tyre calls Webber comes home 6th, Vettel spins off.  1-0 Webber.

China: Vettel leads home Red Bull 1-2.  1 all.

Bahrain:  Vettel second, but Webber clearly blocked in qualifying so unfair comparision.  Still 1 all.

Spain: Webber and Vettel both on 2 stop strategies, Webber finishes ahead.  2-1 Webber.

Monaco: Webber fifth, another unforced error from Vettel.  3-1 Webber.

Turkey: Webber second and Vettel third.  Vettel claims time lost behind Button whilst on low fuel cost him second, he estimates this to be 4 seconds.  However, he came out after his third stop 7 seconds behind Webber, so this would appear to be wrong.  4-1 Webber.

It just adds fuel to the assertion that Vettel is not quite the amazing wunderkind that he appeared to be at STR if he's struggling to dominate a journeyman like Webber.




















<peek>
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