Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to The Pit Lane. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Mark Webber - Most underated driver
Topic Started: Jun 8 2009, 08:39 PM (912 Views)
Craze_b0i
Member Avatar
Refueller
[ *  *  * ]
Vettel knows the Brawn is running away with the championship, I think this is why he is pushing too hard and making mistakes.

Quote:
 
Australia: Vettel had a 50/50 collision with Kubica and Webber got punted off by Barrichello. Call that a no score.

Malaysia: Despite a few dodgy tyre calls Webber comes home 6th, Vettel spins off. 1-0 Webber.

China: Vettel leads home Red Bull 1-2. 1 all.

Bahrain: Vettel second, but Webber clearly blocked in qualifying so unfair comparision. Still 1 all.

Spain: Webber and Vettel both on 2 stop strategies, Webber finishes ahead. 2-1 Webber.

Monaco: Webber fifth, another unforced error from Vettel. 3-1 Webber.

Turkey: Webber second and Vettel third. Vettel claims time lost behind Button whilst on low fuel cost him second, he estimates this to be 4 seconds. However, he came out after his third stop 7 seconds behind Webber, so this would appear to be wrong. 4-1 Webber.


Agree with most of this. Except Turkey, fact is Red Bull gave Vettel a dud strategy - clearly 2 stopper was the way to go. So I'm going to call that one a draw.

*With regard to Spain I missed the race so can't comment.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
John
Team Boss
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Rams,Jun 8 2009
09:39 PM
4-1 Webber

<think>

Webber 128 starts, 0 wins, 0 poles

Vettel 34 starts 2 wins, 3 ploes

I'll stick with Sebastian if it's all right with you... <thumbsup>
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Monty
Chief Engineer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
<thumbsup>
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
TheCompleteGuitarist
Driver
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Put like that then Hamiltons awesome stats for his first two seasons in F1 are being flushed down the toilet by his third.

I agree Vettel has talent and he's a funny and clever chap but his naivety on and off track when he's not getting what he wants is letting him down somewhat. But (given the car) he'll get there.

As for Webber, I also think he's underated. He suffered a great injury which will have screwed his preparation big style, so to still get decent results is not bad effort.

I think we all know stats are becoming meaningless in modern F1, especially if we consider the postion JB is in right now.

5 seasons in an under performing car is going to do your stats no good, but it doesn't mean you're not capable of winning. What has Webber driven and when were any of these cars capable of winning anything other than through sheer luck. Minardi, Jaguar, Williams???

As for Sunday, There was a point in the race where (on his 3 stop strategy) Vettel screamed up behind the back of Buttons car. But in the early stages of the race Button's marginally heavier car was pulling away from Vettel enough to suggest that he never stood a chance.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Monty
Chief Engineer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Well Webbers best chance of winning a race this season was in China, where he was totally anhailated by Vettel. Hes a solid podium driver but not anything like champ material imo.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
TheCompleteGuitarist
Driver
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Monty,Jun 9 2009
11:39 AM
Well Webbers best chance of winning a race this season was in China, where he was totally anhailated by Vettel. Hes a solid podium driver but not anything like champ material imo.

I missed that race so can't comment on it.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
GordonB
Chief Engineer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
TheCompleteGuitarist,Jun 9 2009
11:37 AM
I agree Vettel has talent and he's a funny and clever chap but his naivety on and off track when he's not getting what he wants is letting him down somewhat. But (given the car) he'll get there.

I know this is a topic about Webber, but that paragraph is the best summary of Vettel I've yet heard.

<thumbsup>
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Red Andy
Member Avatar

Moderator
TheCompleteGuitarist,Jun 9 2009
12:37 PM
As for Sunday, There was a point in the race where (on his 3 stop strategy) Vettel screamed up behind the back of Buttons car. But in the early stages of the race Button's marginally heavier car was pulling away from Vettel enough to suggest that he never stood a chance.

Yep. This year's race was pretty much like last year's, except Hamilton (who was on a 3-stop strategy due to having wrecked his tyres the previous year) actually managed to get past Massa, though it counted for nothing in the final result.

Basically, three stops doesn't work in Turkey. As I said before, Red Bull need to work on their race strategy. I think they saw what happened in Barcelona (Vettel being denied pole due to fuelling too heavy, which ended with him being bogged down behind Rubens and Massa at the start) and went too far in the other direction - over-compensating in a desperate attempt to get pole and wrecking their race strategy in the process.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rams
Chief Engineer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
John,Jun 9 2009
12:08 PM
Rams,Jun 8 2009
09:39 PM
4-1 Webber

<think>

Webber 128 starts, 0 wins, 0 poles

Vettel 34 starts 2 wins, 3 ploes

I'll stick with Sebastian if it's all right with you... <thumbsup>

So you just ignore all the evidence of this season, to take a simplistic view.

Has Vettel spent years in uncompetitive Jaguars or a Minardi? No, no he hasn't. So that comparison is worthless to this discussion.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
John
Team Boss
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
teh tehToro Rosso and Red Bull are world class.... <roflmao>
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
stradlin24
Member Avatar
Team Boss
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
There’s something of the Nick Heidfeld about Webber in my opinion

Good drivers and get good results but not in that top class
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rob
Member Avatar

Admin
stradlin24,Jun 9 2009
08:26 AM
There’s something of the Nick Heidfeld about Webber in my opinion

Good drivers and get good results but not in that top class

Good comparrison.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Brave_Lee_Flea
Member Avatar
Chief Engineer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Red Andy,Jun 9 2009
09:43 AM

Red Bull definitely need work in the strategy department. They need someone who brings to race strategy what Adrian Newey brings to design. I'll say it again - Mike Gascoyne!

My impression is that Mike Gascoyne is good at what he does for precisely the same reasons he can never stay long with any team; he's a maverick.

I don't think he's the answer to any of Red Bull's strategic problems and that in that regard he is best placed at a smaller team hoping to pick up points here and there by using unusual strategies that sometimes pay off and sometimes don't. However at a smaller, less competitive team the failure are not as visible and not as important.

I don't recall Williams showing any strategic flair when he was there. Or at any other time!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
TheCompleteGuitarist
Driver
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Rob,Jun 9 2009
03:51 PM
stradlin24,Jun 9 2009
08:26 AM
There’s something of the Nick Heidfeld about Webber in my opinion

Good drivers and get good results but not in that top class

Good comparrison.

Sorry but I have to completely disagree. Some races I'm not even sure Heidfeld was racing.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rams
Chief Engineer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Mike Gascoyne never worked for Williams

Probably the best example of his strategic flair would be the 2007 European GP, when Markus Winklehock ended up 45 seconds ahead of the entire field on his debut in a Spyker!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Formula 1 · Next Topic »
Add Reply