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| Ferrari; Back on Track or Flash in the Pan? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 26 2009, 10:34 AM (247 Views) | |
| Alien_SAP_Fiend | May 26 2009, 10:34 AM Post #1 |
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Ferrari seem to have got their mojo back (other than the pit stops). They were looking good in Spain and even better on Saturday (one of them more so than the other ) while Massa got fastest lap on Sunday (whether it was on the lap where he bounced over the kerb or not nonwithstanding).Are they now best of the rest? Red Bull didn't get the results that they should have on Sunday (thanks to terrible tyres) but they are still strong and are 25 points ahead. Toyota look like they have lost their way and should slip into third place next race. Brawn are in a league of their own, so there's no point in speculating on the WDC or the WCC any more, but it will be interesting to see if Ferrari can catch up with Red Bull. Vettel is very strong in the wet and not untidy in the dry and Webber is not doing badly either, so Massa and Kimi have their work cut out. |
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| Red Andy | May 26 2009, 10:38 AM Post #2 |
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I think Red Bull will be much stronger in Turkey, people are even tipping them to win the race ahead of Brawn. Ferrari might be able to get on terms with them over the season but I don't know whether they will be ahead of them as soon as the next race. Ultimately there is a long way to go in the season and though the titles themselves are all but sewn up, there will be a hell of a battle on for best of the rest honours. |
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| RJHSaints | May 26 2009, 10:43 AM Post #3 |
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IMO second place in the WCC is a realistic target for Ferrari from here. I still think Red Bull are fundementally quicker, but Ferrari are catching up very quickly and by Turkey could be the second best team. From there, they could overtake Brawn at their current rate of development though no doubt it will be harder to keep improving at that rate. P.S. Alien, Kimi only beat Massa on Saturday because Massa got screwed behind Vettel for several laps at the start. In terms of pace Felipe was the quicker.
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| Alien_SAP_Fiend | May 26 2009, 11:02 AM Post #4 |
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Massa should do well there. Perhaps not as fast as Brawn, but quick enough to get onto the grid next to Vettel and in front of Webber. Dunno about Kimi there, I expect he'll be ahead of or near Webber, but not as fast as Massa. |
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| Norbert | May 26 2009, 02:03 PM Post #5 |
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Ferrari have shown an improved pace in the last two races, which hopefully means it isn't a flash. They're not there yet, but I would suggest that out of all of the teams, they've probably gained more laptime than any other this year. Sadly that's partially because they were so bloody slow to start with! They aren't suddenly going to win everything in sight, but I wouldn't bet against two or three wins before the end of the year. |
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| Rob | May 26 2009, 03:15 PM Post #6 |
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They looked pretty good in Spain, great in Monaco. They aren't all the way back yet, but they are getting there. Solid 2nd or 3rd best car. |
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| GordonB | May 26 2009, 03:22 PM Post #7 |
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I think we're also seeing an effect caused by the incredible closeness of performance of all the cars. In practice sessions, there has regularly been less than 2 seconds separating the fastest from the slowest cars. I think that this means that the characteristics of each track are brought more into play than might have previously happened. Monaco is a very different track from Sepang or Shanghai - where Ferrari were rubbish. We might just be seeing that the Ferrari is good on a slow twisting circuit, where low-speed downforce is important, but not so good on a high speed circuit, where total drag at top speed is relatively more important. Given that the circuits have all been so different, I don't think it's surprising that Toyota have shone, Then Red Bull, and now Ferrari - it IS surprising that Brawn have been so good at ALL the races except for Sepang, which we can kind of forgive them, since they'd never tested in the wet. It remains to be seen if Ferrari have truly caught up. I worry that if they start believing their own hype, then they're heading for another fall at a fast circuit (e.g. Turkey) |
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| Steelstallions | May 26 2009, 11:08 PM Post #8 |
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In the last ten years I don't think i have once seen just a flash in the pan for the cars they produce. The normal event is their car gets quicker and quicker even when its the best on the grid to start with. Had they applied the rules from when first building the car in the way they have since the double diffuser was deemed legal, i think Brawn would certainly not be so dominate in fact Brawn might have been trailing them. Few team can make up the performance deficit they have in such a short period of time, imagine if the car had been designed from scratch using double diffusers. |
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| flood1 | May 27 2009, 01:41 AM Post #9 |
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Steel, I see the issue a little differently. Ferrari, due to a lack of imagination has been left to be the best at "copying" someone else's design. This is not the recent history of Ferrari. They innovate and lead. If they continue to depend on copying others, they will always be late to the dance. I question their ability to continue to innovate. The guy responsible for their success went elsewhere after 5 WDCs, and he has the car they are copying. Ferrari have been for ten years the same team that won with Schu at Benneton. The success is not Ferrari's, but a bunch of Brits and a French rally co-driver. There is nothing really Italian about their success since way back when. They have been 1995 Benneton for many years. |
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| Steelstallions | May 27 2009, 06:17 AM Post #10 |
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I think you took a whole perspective on my post which i never said or intended. 1. What's with the "There is nothing really Italian about their success since way back when".? I really have no clue where that came from. Its not even hinted at as a reference on my post and something I haven't said before or would even say in the future. Its an accepted fact that having an international crew of the best people in F1 gets success, the passion which is the Tifosi is not so easy to buy. 2. I know the F1 team were a lumbering giant pre-Todt years and it took him a few years to get the money flowing in the right directions. Hence I said in the last ten years Ferrari get faster and faster. 3. Ferrari are not copying Brawn, the diffusers rules confused more teams than Ferrari. If it was merely copying, then BMW Toyota and Mclaren would have been fast enough for the podium or missed pole by 0.025. My point is, of all of them Ferrari have made the most of using the rules in the way they are now interpreted and being innovative enough in such a small amount of time to catch up. Had all the teams interpreted that fundamental rule on diffusers before the season started, Ferrari would have at the start of the season been already past the point of development they are at now. Brawn would not have had it all their way and if KER's was mandatory this season, it would have been interesting to see the state of play come race day. 4. It took more than just grafting the best of Benneton at Ferrari to achieve success. There had to be a complete culture change and complete different way of running the operation from Headquarters at FIAT all the way through to the racing team. That now has culminated in what Ferrari have achieved but more importantly for them, a parent company rich enough and cunning enough to make targeted acquisitions to soon become the second biggest manufacturer in the world. Lack of imagination in design and business? I don't think so Flood |
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| Lex | May 27 2009, 09:34 AM Post #11 |
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I wouldn't rule out Massa in Turkey - he's a bit of a specialist on that circuit... |
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) while Massa got fastest lap on Sunday (whether it was on the lap where he bounced over the kerb or not nonwithstanding).









1:00 AM Jul 11