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Who said there were no double standards in F1
Topic Started: May 24 2009, 10:51 PM (1,021 Views)
Red Andy
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stradlin24,May 25 2009
12:13 PM
So why it Italy was Alonso given a penalty for 'blocking' Massa in quali (when he was no where near) but got away with a blatent block on Trulli at the weekend?

How does that work then? Where's the consistency? Oh I forgot! Trulli drives a Toyota, how silly of me

Massa DID cut the chicance, I saw it with my own eyes and he DID gain an advantage

Whether Ferrari fans chose to accept that is another matter, a matter of class and grace. Clearly both are in short supply

I have to admit I'm surprised Alonso didn't get penalised for "blocking" Trulli on Saturday, blocking penalties have been handed out for far less in the past. Personally I'd prefer it if no blocking penalties were given at all, but it is inconsistent with what we have seen in the past. Monza 2006 is a bad example though because the rules were changed afterwards so that the offence had to be deemed deliberate for a penalty to be applied.

Massa did not "gain an advantage" by cutting the chicane because gaining an advantage, in race conditions anyway, has been clearly defined through precedent as either overtaking someone or preventing someone from overtaking you. Neither applied in Massa's case so it was right not to punish him.
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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RJHSaints,May 25 2009
11:07 AM
Sorry, but the two situations have nothing in common and people who call double standards are just looking for reasons to attack Ferrari and Massa.

Firstly, I don't have a problem with Massa, I've seen him grow over the last couple of seasons and certainly he's my preferred of the Ferrari drivers.

He gained a time advantage by not having to slow down as much to take the corner, meaning he had more potential to pull away from the driver behind or catch the one ahead.

As John so neatly quoted me earlier, if that isn't gaining an advantage, then I don't know what is.

But hey, I saw Alonso completely miss a chicane in Malaysia last year, over take about 6 cars and then go on to win the race.
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RJHSaints
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TheCompleteGuitarist,May 25 2009
12:30 PM
RJHSaints,May 25 2009
11:07 AM
Sorry, but the two situations have nothing in common and people who call double standards are just looking for reasons to attack Ferrari and Massa.

Firstly, I don't have a problem with Massa, I've seen him grow over the last couple of seasons and certainly he's my preferred of the Ferrari drivers.

He gained a time advantage by not having to slow down as much to take the corner, meaning he had more potential to pull away from the driver behind or catch the one ahead.

As John so neatly quoted me earlier, if that isn't gaining an advantage, then I don't know what is.

But hey, I saw Alonso completely miss a chicane in Malaysia last year, over take about 6 cars and then go on to win the race.

Well sure, he gained maybe about 0.2s in the entire race through slightly cutting the chicane. But as others have said, it was not deliberate and did not yield any difference in the actual result; it is also questionable that other drivers were not doing it, as I recall Bourdais clean cut the chicane twice because of a mistake yet no-one is fingering him.

For me, any direct comparison with the Spa incident is impossible.
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stradlin24
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But what if his constant chicane cutting allowed him to gain a place via the pits?

He made up time by cutting the chicance, no doubt about it and he did it several times so what if all the time added up meant he got an extra place when the pit stops cycled through?

Not much difference between the Hamilton incident when you look at it like that...
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RJHSaints
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Well, he did it twice and got warned about it. When he exited the pits first time, as I recall he was 3 seconds behind Raikkonen and 2 seconds ahead of Rosberg; second time he was about two seconds behind Raikkonen and maybe the same distance ahead of Webber.

If you actually look at the incidents I don't know how you could conclude that he gained sufficient advantage to overtake anyone in the pits.
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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RJHSaints,May 25 2009
11:42 AM
For me, any direct comparison with the Spa incident is impossible.

Well for sure I agree with that.
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everythingoes
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The advantage is deemed to have been made, the actuality of the incidence is merely coincidental <doh>

Don't you know, its only because of cutting the chicane that Massa finished 4th. In fact, he was only in a position to challenge for the WDC last year because he cut the chicane yesterday <hitwall>

<sarcasm>
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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everythingoes,May 25 2009
12:15 PM
The advantage is deemed to have been made, the actuality of the incidence is merely coincidental <doh>

Don't you know, its only because of cutting the chicane that Massa finished 4th. In fact, he was only in a position to challenge for the WDC last year because he cut the chicane yesterday <hitwall>

<sarcasm>

Well if there is a rule then you can be sure Ferrari will find a loophole and attempt to bend it, including the laws of physics.

<flirt>



<sarcasm>
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everythingoes
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TheCompleteGuitarist,May 25 2009
05:51 PM
everythingoes,May 25 2009
12:15 PM
The advantage is deemed to have been made, the actuality of the incidence is merely coincidental <doh>

Don't you know, its only because of cutting the chicane that Massa finished 4th. In fact, he was only in a position to challenge for the WDC last year because he cut the chicane yesterday <hitwall>

<sarcasm>

Well if there is a rule then you can be sure Ferrari will find a loophole and attempt to bend it, including the laws of physics.

<flirt>



<sarcasm>

<roflmao>

The trouble is when they do try and break the laws of physics, the others complain. Remember flexi-wings & flexi-floors?

this time they've gone for the time-space continuum and people are complaining!

<LOL>
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ELUSIVEJIM
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Red Andy,May 25 2009
11:26 AM
stradlin24,May 25 2009
12:13 PM
So why it Italy was Alonso given a penalty for 'blocking' Massa in quali (when he was no where near) but got away with a blatent block on Trulli at the weekend?

How does that work then? Where's the consistency? Oh I forgot! Trulli drives a Toyota, how silly of me

Massa DID cut the chicance, I saw it with my own eyes and he DID gain an advantage

Whether Ferrari fans chose to accept that is another matter, a matter of class and grace. Clearly both are in short supply

I have to admit I'm surprised Alonso didn't get penalised for "blocking" Trulli on Saturday, blocking penalties have been handed out for far less in the past. Personally I'd prefer it if no blocking penalties were given at all, but it is inconsistent with what we have seen in the past. Monza 2006 is a bad example though because the rules were changed afterwards so that the offence had to be deemed deliberate for a penalty to be applied.

Massa did not "gain an advantage" by cutting the chicane because gaining an advantage, in race conditions anyway, has been clearly defined through precedent as either overtaking someone or preventing someone from overtaking you. Neither applied in Massa's case so it was right not to punish him.

Was it Alonso's fault??

If i remember Alonso had slowed down because a car in front was bunching Alonso up too.

Monaco is a track that is very difficult to get a clear lap but to be honest the Toyota was not going to get through whatever.

The stewards would have looked at the footage as Trulli complained but that for me was through frustation

Is it not about time everyone STOPPED going on about the past??

Getting fed up of threads being turned into what happened 3-4 years ago.

Yes some calls by the FIA and stewards were poor but come on........

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stradlin24
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everythingoes,May 25 2009
12:15 PM
The advantage is deemed to have been made, the actuality of the incidence is merely coincidental <doh>

Don't you know, its only because of cutting the chicane that Massa finished 4th. In fact, he was only in a position to challenge for the WDC last year because he cut the chicane yesterday <hitwall>

<sarcasm>

Laugh if you want but way more extreme things have been said about Lewis Hamilton and winning the WDC

It's just a different matter when it's a boy in red

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stradlin24
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ELUSIVEJIM,May 25 2009
12:35 PM
Red Andy,May 25 2009
11:26 AM
stradlin24,May 25 2009
12:13 PM
So why it Italy was Alonso given a penalty for 'blocking' Massa in quali (when he was no where near) but got away with a blatent block on Trulli at the weekend?

How does that work then? Where's the consistency? Oh I forgot! Trulli drives a Toyota, how silly of me

Massa DID cut the chicance, I saw it with my own eyes and he DID gain an advantage

Whether Ferrari fans chose to accept that is another matter, a matter of class and grace. Clearly both are in short supply

I have to admit I'm surprised Alonso didn't get penalised for "blocking" Trulli on Saturday, blocking penalties have been handed out for far less in the past. Personally I'd prefer it if no blocking penalties were given at all, but it is inconsistent with what we have seen in the past. Monza 2006 is a bad example though because the rules were changed afterwards so that the offence had to be deemed deliberate for a penalty to be applied.

Massa did not "gain an advantage" by cutting the chicane because gaining an advantage, in race conditions anyway, has been clearly defined through precedent as either overtaking someone or preventing someone from overtaking you. Neither applied in Massa's case so it was right not to punish him.

Was it Alonso's fault??

If i remember Alonso had slowed down because a car in front was bunching Alonso up too.

Monaco is a track that is very difficult to get a clear lap but to be honest the Toyota was not going to get through whatever.

The stewards would have looked at the footage as Trulli complained but that for me was through frustation

Is it not about time everyone STOPPED going on about the past??

Getting fed up of threads being turned into what happened 3-4 years ago.

Yes some calls by the FIA and stewards were poor but come on........

But Jim, the key word is consistency

and we will never ever able to be able to go a week without hearing about Spygate or Liegate so under the same rules why can't we look at dodgy decisions involving Ferrari's from years gone by?

I am 100% sure in my mind that if it was Massa in Trulli's place at the weekend then Alonso would have got a penalty and I don't think anyone can possibly disagree with that

I also firmly believe that if Hamilton had done what Massa did by cutting the chicane then he would have been penalised and I also don't think anyone can disagree with that

What i'm looking at is how decisions have gone over the past few years and you'd have to say it makes fairly ill reading for anyone but Ferrari fans
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SaveOurSilverstone
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Quote:
 
But fastest lap counts for no more than bragging rights anyway, so nothing was really gained.


It matters for the fantasy league.. <thumbsup>

did massa cut the corner on lap 50???? <devil>
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ELUSIVEJIM
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stradlin24,May 25 2009
01:00 PM
ELUSIVEJIM,May 25 2009
12:35 PM
Red Andy,May 25 2009
11:26 AM
stradlin24,May 25 2009
12:13 PM
So why it Italy was Alonso given a penalty for 'blocking' Massa in quali (when he was no where near) but got away with a blatent block on Trulli at the weekend?

How does that work then? Where's the consistency? Oh I forgot! Trulli drives a Toyota, how silly of me

Massa DID cut the chicance, I saw it with my own eyes and he DID gain an advantage

Whether Ferrari fans chose to accept that is another matter, a matter of class and grace. Clearly both are in short supply

I have to admit I'm surprised Alonso didn't get penalised for "blocking" Trulli on Saturday, blocking penalties have been handed out for far less in the past. Personally I'd prefer it if no blocking penalties were given at all, but it is inconsistent with what we have seen in the past. Monza 2006 is a bad example though because the rules were changed afterwards so that the offence had to be deemed deliberate for a penalty to be applied.

Massa did not "gain an advantage" by cutting the chicane because gaining an advantage, in race conditions anyway, has been clearly defined through precedent as either overtaking someone or preventing someone from overtaking you. Neither applied in Massa's case so it was right not to punish him.

Was it Alonso's fault??

If i remember Alonso had slowed down because a car in front was bunching Alonso up too.

Monaco is a track that is very difficult to get a clear lap but to be honest the Toyota was not going to get through whatever.

The stewards would have looked at the footage as Trulli complained but that for me was through frustation

Is it not about time everyone STOPPED going on about the past??

Getting fed up of threads being turned into what happened 3-4 years ago.

Yes some calls by the FIA and stewards were poor but come on........

But Jim, the key word is consistency

and we will never ever able to be able to go a week without hearing about Spygate or Liegate so under the same rules why can't we look at dodgy decisions involving Ferrari's from years gone by?

I am 100% sure in my mind that if it was Massa in Trulli's place at the weekend then Alonso would have got a penalty and I don't think anyone can possibly disagree with that

I also firmly believe that if Hamilton had done what Massa did by cutting the chicane then he would have been penalised and I also don't think anyone can disagree with that

What i'm looking at is how decisions have gone over the past few years and you'd have to say it makes fairly ill reading for anyone but Ferrari fans

Yes mate i totally understand where you are coming from but i am sure the FIA and Ferrari would not be in good terms at Monaco after all the press about them quitting <roflmao>

To be honest Stradlin you should be getting behind the FIA as they may have to walk at the end of the year. <doh>

Joking apart i do know what you mean but as i always say without Mclaren and Ferrari in F1 it would be a very boring place

I do admit some of the Ferrari results have been helped away from the track but i personally feel these days are numbered.

I am a Ferrari fan and always will be but i must say i am very happy to see Brawn showing the way this year.

Makes a refreshing change and i am sure we will NEVER see a new team achieve this again.

The FIA know without Ferrari F1 is dead whether you like them or not they are F1.

I really feel now tho the FIA are making sure the other teams on the grid know that Ferrari will not receive any small favors when it comes to the future in F1.
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ELUSIVEJIM
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SaveOurSilverstone,May 25 2009
02:01 PM
Quote:
 
But fastest lap counts for no more than bragging rights anyway, so nothing was really gained.


It matters for the fantasy league.. <thumbsup>

did massa cut the corner on lap 50???? <devil>

Only is RB was the 2nd fastest <dance> <roflmao>
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