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The Death of Formula One; it's beginning
Topic Started: May 13 2009, 01:50 PM (969 Views)
sportsman
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Steelstallions,May 13 2009
05:15 PM
If they do not buckle down to the manufactures request to stop the two tier next season, F1 will be over.
Manufactures will pull out and what's left will implode. The manufactures will go to other series and if they are as smart as i think they are, they will take over something like the A1GP franchise (as i read in a very interesting article) and make it their own.
Dump the current format but take over the business as the new F1 with all the contracts for tracks, Hi Def media etc etc. Watch the sponsors and big money flock to the new GP1 as thats were the true pinnacle of sports cars will be racing.

Don't forget that these manufactures are not just a car on the grid, they represent major investment in the series.VIP events, bringing in stands full of ultra rich clients to wine and dine.
Where do you think the fans are going to go when its choice of seeing Ferrari, Mclaren Renault Red bull in less restricted cars or F1 with cosworth engines and out of the shed Lola's built with more standard parts than an airfix model.

Don't think having a full grid of budget cars is F1. If the manufactures go then the series is dead, because its more than just the car and driver they bring to F1.

A very good and accurate assessment of just what manufacturers bring to F1.

Another point that is being overlooked.
You can go to your local Ferrari dealer and buy your own. It's not an F1 car thats true but nonetheless it still has the same name.
That's true of Mercedes,BMW and all of the others.
You can buy a McLaren F1 road car if you wish, and have a million pounds or so to spare.
But everyone in the world has heard of Ferrari. From the Chinese coolie working in the rice paddy To the Mexican kid playing football in the street, who dreams of playing for Real Madrid and buying a Ferrari.
The East European businessman who buys a Mercedes rto show everyone that he is rich.

These people have never heard of Williams, Brawn, Lola simply because they can't buy them and even if they could, what do they do with them.

Ferrari's name and reputation was made over a period of some 70 odd years. As was Mercedes and many others.
Ferrari have no real need of F1 any longer.
But F1 needs Ferrari, Mercedes, BMW and Renault.
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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sportsman,May 13 2009
06:04 PM
These people have never heard of Williams, Brawn, Lola simply because they can't buy them and even if they could, what do they do with them.

With an attitude like that you might as well screw every other international level sport and replace it with the commercial equivalent.

That's sad.

I believe in people, not brand names.
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Brave_Lee_Flea
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TheCompleteGuitarist,May 13 2009
03:42 PM
What I think about the budget cap.

1. It will allow more teams to enter F1.

.
.
.

I'm not wrong.

No, you're not wrong. Or should that be "Yes, you're not wrong" ?

I think what we are witnessing is Typical Mosely Diplomacy. He knows the teams won't accpt this proposal as it stands but that they'll be prepared to accept tighter financial regulation then they would have been had he started off with a more moderate position.

It has the added benefit of potentially alienating some of the poorer member of FOTA thereby weakening the collective bargaining position of that organisation.

Don't underestimate Max Mosely, he is as wily and as cunning as they come and it suits him well for people to think he's an idiot.

This isn't over, not by a long chalk, the $40 million was just Max's first stone. It was intended to ruffle feathers - and it has.
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Steelstallions
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Petra Lead,May 13 2009
06:32 PM


Don't underestimate Max Mosely, he is as wily and as cunning as they come and it suits him well for people to think he's an idiot.

This isn't over, not by a long chalk, the $40 million was just Max's first stone. It was intended to ruffle feathers - and it has.

Normally i would agree with that statement. but i think this time Max has not so much ruffled feathers but woken up a giant.
I doubt very much he would have calculated so many big teams making public that they will leave the sport. I have never known a situation like it, the closest was the breakaway series but this time i actually believe they will go ahead and do it.

He's overdone it this time and doubt the big teams have the patience to play his game. After all, who loses the most if they leave? Them who will still sell road cars or F1 that will have just lost their biggest revenue earners. A grid full of Lola's and Aston Martin's will not bring the sponsors the sport enjoy now, in fact even the sponsors will renegotiate deals and clear off as well.

Max's bluff backfired.

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Brave_Lee_Flea
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Steelstallions,May 13 2009
09:04 PM

Max's bluff backfired.

Maybe. It's not over yet.

I'd lay money that the teams won't break away and that they'll settle for a situation that they wouldn't have countenanced prior.

Lets see how it pans out.

Personally I am all in favour of a budget cap on the priviso that it can be policed, although I do think $40 mill is too low.

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everythingoes
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TheCompleteGuitarist,May 13 2009
09:12 PM
I think the problem say with Ferrari is, we're so rich, we have the money, we should be able to spend it to make us look better than the guy with less money. OK you may say fine, let them spend it. But you'll end up with a series that has only Ferrari, Mclaren and say one of the other big spenders, but ultimately you are forcing out smaller teams and a potentially bring the series to a close.

I'm not wrong.

Sorry, but you are :P

Your argument is based on the assumption that the manufacturer teams like Ferrari do not want to limit spending. Not true, the teams already slashed spends for this year voluntarily, at the cost of reduced testing and limited wind tunnel usage or other means. They did it at short notice at the end of last year, without involving Max & the FIA in it.

They have since given a proposal for further reduction in spends over the next 3 years. But, Max, in order to flex his muscles <yikes>, woke up one morning and/or crawled out of his dungeon and decided to set a budget cap and have a two-tier championship, because he like it.

The teams are objecting to the arbitrariness of the way the new rules got introduced and their whimsical nature. For so many years max introduced rules saying that the teams are unable to agree on anything so the FIA has to make the rules. Now that the teams are in agreement, its his worst nightmare coming true. hence the brinkmanship.
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sportsman
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If you read all of the press statements there is another issue that the manufacturers are even more unhappy about.
That is the governance of F1.
They all have stated that they have had enough of the FIA imposing new rules and regulations unilaterally.
That is in reality the core problem.
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Red Andy
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According to Joe Saward (GrandPrix.com editor), who usually knows about these things, there were whisperings over the Spanish GP weekend about the emergence of a candidate to oppose Mosley in the FIA elections in October. It's possible that the FIA's arbitrary governance of F1 could come to a close, assuming of course that the candidate in question a) wins and b) is considerably less crazy than Max.
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Norbert
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TheCompleteGuitarist,May 13 2009
05:11 PM
Not really, we have an activity that lines the pockets of Bernie and is now breaking up around the edges. The politics is now dominating the sport like it never has before and you can't say it isn't.

Try the early 1980s.

<thumbsup>
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Norbert
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sportsman,May 14 2009
09:04 AM
If you read all of the press statements there is another issue that the manufacturers are even more unhappy about.
That is the governance of F1.
They all have stated that they have had enough of the FIA imposing new rules and regulations unilaterally.
That is in reality the core problem.

I thought the teams were allowed some say in the matter of new rules. However, maybe this only applies if the new rules are required for a season they've already signed up to? I'm aware of a principal that says rules can only be changed after a certain point if every team, agrees, hence the stupid 'medals' system planned for this year about 30 secs before the first race got slung out by the teams. As I understand, unless it was in the rules by Jan this year, it cannot now be introduced until 2011 unless the teams agree, which they won't. However, it appears that no teams have signed up for next year, so whenever they do sign, the rules set for 2010 at the moment will be those in effect.
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Lex
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IF they introduced medals AND a budget cap..

what will be the difference between F1 and A1GP?

<rolleyes>
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PiquetFan
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Lex,May 14 2009
01:52 PM
what will be the difference between F1 and A1GP?

<think>

There is a Ferrari presence in A1GP <LOL>
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Lord Tau
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Lex,May 14 2009
12:52 PM
IF they introduced medals AND a budget cap..

what will be the difference between F1 and A1GP?

<rolleyes>

A1GP still determines their champion by number of points, IIRC.
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Alien_SAP_Fiend
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The fires is definitely going out of F1, there would normally be loads of activity on this board, the F1 news sites would be abuzz with speculation and quotes... instead there's the same old story about the budget cap and Autosport are doing their usual previews... but really there's not the amount of excitement about the weekend and it's mainly because we all know who's going to win and even if he doesn't, he's still got such a massive lead that we may as well write the season off.

Who's actually looking forward to this weekend as much as they were last year? I'm not even going to watch it live. Last year I'd have been glued to the telly from an hour beforehand!
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AndyW76
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Well, I'll be watching from just before the start. I just ignore the build up now because all the silly stories bore me. I still enjoy the racing.
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