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Hamilton demoted to 3rd
Topic Started: Sep 7 2008, 04:16 PM (5,640 Views)
AndyW76
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Alien_SAP_Fiend,Sep 9 2008
11:32 AM
Watch this quickly before it gets taken down.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6ovii_ww...iltonkimi_sport

0.56 Hamilton storms into the corner, half a car length BEHIND Kimi
0.57 realises that he won't make it, cuts the chicane,
1.00 does NOT lift off to let Kimi past, he's accelerating through the gears
1.06 gets behind Kimi long enough for a tow
1.07 immediately storms past him again into the next corner.

Ballsy stuff and technically, he did give the place back, but he did it only long enough for a tow into the next corner

Incidentally, you can see that Kimi's spin later (3.10) is due to a back marker on the racing line.

0.56 - It is quite clear that Lewis is ahead of kimi in the breaking zone as Kimi's car is completely out of sight.
1.00 - how can you tell that lewis isn't short shifting or is at full throttle? Short shifting reduces the acceleration of the car. Very little actual fact can be established from this video. The fact is that Lewis let kimi back past, which is what is required. until actual telemetry data is published for this segment of the race, nothing definitive is proven.
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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Alien_SAP_Fiend,Sep 9 2008
11:32 AM
Watch this quickly before it gets taken down.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6ovii_ww...iltonkimi_sport

0.56 Hamilton storms into the corner, half a car length BEHIND Kimi
0.57 realises that he won't make it, cuts the chicane,
1.00 does NOT lift off to let Kimi past, he's accelerating through the gears
1.06 gets behind Kimi long enough for a tow
1.07 immediately storms past him again into the next corner.

Ballsy stuff and technically, he did give the place back, but he did it only long enough for a tow into the next corner

Incidentally, you can see that Kimi's spin later (3.10) is due to a back marker on the racing line.

I have to disagree a little, Kimi defended the corner, Lewis was AHEAD as they entered the corner but kimi decided not to leave room for lewis by cutting back across him, lewis was turning in when kimi cut across his path, lewis then had to TURN left into the corner to avoid Kimi and also to cut the apex, based on that view, Lewis had a tighter turn than Kimi thus less momemum out of the corner but I concede it did put him ahead on track.
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AndyW76
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TheCompleteGuitarist,Sep 9 2008
11:42 AM
Alien_SAP_Fiend,Sep 9 2008
11:32 AM
Watch this quickly before it gets taken down.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6ovii_ww...iltonkimi_sport

0.56 Hamilton storms into the corner, half a car length BEHIND Kimi
0.57 realises that he won't make it, cuts the chicane, 
1.00 does NOT lift off to let Kimi past, he's accelerating through the gears
1.06 gets behind Kimi long enough for a tow
1.07 immediately storms past him again into the next corner.

Ballsy stuff and technically, he did give the place back, but he did it only long enough for a tow into the next corner

Incidentally, you can see that Kimi's spin later (3.10) is due to a back marker on the racing line.

I have to disagree a little, Kimi defended the corner, Lewis was AHEAD as they entered the corner but kimi decided not to leave room for lewis by cutting back across him, lewis was turning in when kimi cut across his path, lewis then had to TURN left into the corner to avoid Kimi and also to cut the apex, based on that view, Lewis had a tighter turn than Kimi thus less momemum out of the corner but I concede it did put him ahead on track.

Hence lewis backed off to let kimi past. You can actually see lewis's head turned watching kimi to make sure he gets back past. It isn't lewis's fault that the Ferrari is crap in the wet, allowing him to catch kimi easily at la source.
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Alien_SAP_Fiend
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Watch it again. Lewis was ahead on the outside of the previous corner, but behind when they entered the one he cut. He was also carrying a lot of speed into it when he was in front, making it doubtful that he'd have managed to make the next one in any case, not without slowing down a lot more than he did when he cut it.

The point is that after the corner, he's belting it down the track, gives the place back long enough for a tow and then whips back past. That's what the penalty is for.
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AndyW76
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Alien_SAP_Fiend,Sep 9 2008
11:47 AM
Watch it again. Lewis was ahead on the outside of the previous corner, but behind when they entered the one he cut. He was also carrying a lot of speed into that when he was in front, making it doubtful that he'd have managed to make the next one in any case, not without slowing down a lot more than he did when he cut it.

The point is that after the corner, he's belting it down the track, gives the place back long enough for a tow and then whips back past. That's what the penalty is for.

How do you know that Lewis didn't catch kimi because kimi was struggling to put the power down in the wet, which seems to be a trait of the 2008 Ferrari.
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Alien_SAP_Fiend
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because he is going full tilt when he gives the place back and retakes it a second later after a tow.

Edit: I'm glad you can see Lewis's head turning... what with the HANS device and all ;)
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AndyW76
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Also, if Lewis was at full throttle, how come he didn't spin out, as an f1 car would do on grooved slicks in the wet.
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Alien_SAP_Fiend
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because the Mclaren is better in the wet, as you have just pointed out?
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AndyW76
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So, you are telling me that, on a soaking we track, on dry tyres, without traction control and 750BHP+, Lewis had his foot flat on the floor out of a low speed bend and he didn't get any wheel spin. <roflmao>



I know he's good but he isn't a magician. <roflmao>
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AndyW76,Sep 9 2008
05:26 PM
So, you are telling me that, on a soaking we track, on dry tyres, without traction control and 750BHP+, Lewis had his foot flat on the floor out of a low speed bend and he didn't get any wheel spin. <roflmao>



I know he's good but he isn't a magician. <roflmao>

But everyone knows he can walk on water, so ........
<roflmao>
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u4coffee
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AndyW76,Sep 9 2008
12:56 PM
So, you are telling me that, on a soaking we track, on dry tyres, without traction control and 750BHP+, Lewis had his foot flat on the floor out of a low speed bend and he didn't get any wheel spin. <roflmao>



I know he's good but he isn't a magician. <roflmao>

kinda doubt there was much of a dry line for him across the chicane either <think>
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Alien_SAP_Fiend
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AndyW76,Sep 9 2008
11:56 AM
So, you are telling me that, on a soaking we track, on dry tyres, without traction control and 750BHP+, Lewis had his foot flat on the floor out of a low speed bend and he didn't get any wheel spin. <roflmao>



I know he's good but he isn't a magician. <roflmao>

It was a low speed bend, which Lewis took at high speed, which is why he didn't get wheel spin.

But the reason for his penalty was that he gained an advantage from cutting the corner, an advantage which he did not relinquish when he let Kimi pass, because he slipstreams and then re-passes in the next corner. The place was given back, but not the advantage.
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John
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Alien_SAP_Fiend,Sep 9 2008
01:23 PM
The place was given back, but not the advantage.

it that what the whole thing is balanced on...

What does the rule say... you must had back the position or the advantage <think>
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AndyW76
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Alien_SAP_Fiend,Sep 9 2008
12:23 PM
AndyW76,Sep 9 2008
11:56 AM
So, you are telling me that, on a soaking we track, on dry tyres, without traction control and 750BHP+, Lewis had his foot flat on the floor out of a low speed bend and he didn't get any wheel spin. <roflmao>



I know he's good but he isn't a magician. <roflmao>

It was a low speed bend, which Lewis took at high speed, which is why he didn't get wheel spin.

But the reason for his penalty was that he gained an advantage from cutting the corner, an advantage which he did not relinquish when he let Kimi pass, because he slipstreams and then re-passes in the next corner. The place was given back, but not the advantage.

So how the hell is lewis meant to quantify how much advantage to give back. How long should he back off for? 1 second? 2 seconds? 5 seconds? 10 F***ing minutes? The only measure that he could use for knowing how much to back off (which is a long established measure) is by relinquishing the place at the time. Or do you expect him to get his slide-rule out?
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Alien_SAP_Fiend
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It's up to Lewis not to drive in such a manner as to make the Stewards get their slide rules out.

He didn't have to take such a big risk. He gambled when he didn't need to and he lost.
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