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Hamilton demoted to 3rd
Topic Started: Sep 7 2008, 04:16 PM (5,641 Views)
stradlin24
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DavidColthard II,Sep 8 2008
07:59 PM
stradlin23,Sep 7 2008
07:06 PM
for the penalty
The Stewards
Elusive Jim
Bear
dc202 (those two don't even count tbh)

Against it
Me
Tau
Sys
Dazzer
Piquet
Gav
Gordon b
styeffo
morpun
dc19
the complete guitarist
goblin
the ENTIRE F1 MEDIA!!!! and almost eveyone on every other forum i've visted!

<roflmao>  <roflmao>  <roflmao>  <roflmao>

like Morpun  and SyS have said, i give up on f1 today but I also give up on some of it's fans, a terrible day for the sport and only been made worse by a few people

let the shambles roll on to Monza, the tainted and FAKE championship will go on

Typical s**t stirring from this bonehead who constantly critisizes f1 and says how bad it is yet when his hero is thawrted he throws the toys out the pram. Hamilton will get it taken away on appeal anyway.

that was boring
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Monty
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As boring as your complaining and attacking of posters who challenge your views?
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stradlin24
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DavidColthard II,Sep 8 2008
08:09 PM
As boring as your complaining and attacking of posters who challenge your views?

so kiddy wants to play?

sadly, i've got better things to do

calm down dc
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Monty
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Yup, better things to do like have 50 posts in one thread. Dam cool.
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stradlin24
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DavidColthard II,Sep 8 2008
08:13 PM
Yup, better things to do like have 50 posts in one thread. Dam cool.

erm, since when has 33 being 50?

<roflmao> <roflmao> <roflmao>

"dam" cool ah Dc! "dam" cool!

carry on dc......
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PiquetFan
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C'mon guys - no personal attacks please. This thread has mostly been debated in a great spirit.
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stradlin24
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PiquetFan,Sep 8 2008
08:19 PM
C'mon guys - no personal attacks please. This thread has mostly been debated in a great spirit.

<clap> <thumbsup>
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Norbert
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PiquetFan,Sep 8 2008
08:19 PM
C'mon guys - no personal attacks please. This thread has mostly been debated in a great spirit.

I don't recall being given any Jameson.....

<mad>
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Nomad
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Norbert,Sep 8 2008
08:41 AM
Nomad,Sep 8 2008
03:36 PM
I am an active Steward with a license high enough to allow me to be a Steward at a F1 event.

Forgive me if I've missed it, but as a steward, how would you have ruled on said event?


My personal impression was that Hamilton had violated the rules. As a Steward, I cannot offer an opinion without hearing the arguements made by the participants and reviewing the information and evidence presented at the hearing. Similarly, I cannot give an opinion of the appropriateness of the penalty assigned. The Stewards of that particular Meet have information and evidence not available to us fans. I will wait and look at the results of the Appeal process. And no, I have no idea whether the Appeal can or will be accepted.
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Alien_SAP_Fiend
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http://timesonline.typepad.com/formula_one...y-tricky-i.html

Bearing in mind that Ed Gorman is one of Lewis' biggest fans...
Quote:
 
The way the stewards approached it - quite correctly in my view - was to put out of their minds who the cars were being driven by and what stage, of which race, they were looking at. In other words they closed their minds to the sporting politics of the situation and focussed intently on the evidence presented to them. As one source put it: "They looked at it as if it was a GP2 incident, not Kimi vs Lewis at the climax of the Belgian Grand Prix." By this means, as he pointed out, they came, in their view, "to a fair sporting conclusion even if that was also a PR disaster for Formula One."

But consider this: If the stewards genuinely believed that Lewis had broken the rules, should they have rigged their analysis, their decision and the punishment they handed down to favour him because he went on to win the race and had driven so well? Would that not be the same crime that so many of you are now accusing them of - namely acting in a biased and partial way and not viewing the evidence in an impartial, independent and fair manner? Once they had come to the conclusion that they reached - that Lewis had gained an unfair advantage - then, as I understand it, they had only two choices in terms of sanction - a drive-through or a 10-place grid penalty for Monza. They chose the tough sell...
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AndyW76
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Nomad,Sep 9 2008
02:29 AM
Norbert,Sep 8 2008
08:41 AM
Nomad,Sep 8 2008
03:36 PM
I am an active Steward with a license high enough to allow me to be a Steward at a F1 event.

Forgive me if I've missed it, but as a steward, how would you have ruled on said event?


My personal impression was that Hamilton had violated the rules. As a Steward, I cannot offer an opinion without hearing the arguements made by the participants and reviewing the information and evidence presented at the hearing. Similarly, I cannot give an opinion of the appropriateness of the penalty assigned. The Stewards of that particular Meet have information and evidence not available to us fans. I will wait and look at the results of the Appeal process. And no, I have no idea whether the Appeal can or will be accepted.

I feel that the penalty was metted out based on their opinions but was stated as fact, which is shaky legal grounds, to say the least. It is impossible to say whether hamilton did get an advantage or that Raikkonen was unusually slow on the S/F straight. Bearing in mind that the ferrari was struggling on the wet parts of the track, the second option is as feasible as the first, in which case, may be Lewis did back off enough. The fact is that the rules do not explicitly state how much advantage to give back, with the only guideline being merely to relinquish the place. Any other judgement is based on opinion, which, like Isaid, is dodgy grounds for a penalty. In addition, the fact that Raikkonen didn't finish the race makes a result changing penalty look like over kill and certainly suggests over zealousness from the stewards.
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AndyW76
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Alien_SAP_Fiend,Sep 9 2008
10:31 AM
http://timesonline.typepad.com/formula_one...y-tricky-i.html

Bearing in mind that Ed Gorman is one of Lewis' biggest fans...
Quote:
 
The way the stewards approached it - quite correctly in my view - was to put out of their minds who the cars were being driven by and what stage, of which race, they were looking at. In other words they closed their minds to the sporting politics of the situation and focussed intently on the evidence presented to them. As one source put it: "They looked at it as if it was a GP2 incident, not Kimi vs Lewis at the climax of the Belgian Grand Prix." By this means, as he pointed out, they came, in their view, "to a fair sporting conclusion even if that was also a PR disaster for Formula One."

But consider this: If the stewards genuinely believed that Lewis had broken the rules, should they have rigged their analysis, their decision and the punishment they handed down to favour him because he went on to win the race and had driven so well? Would that not be the same crime that so many of you are now accusing them of - namely acting in a biased and partial way and not viewing the evidence in an impartial, independent and fair manner? Once they had come to the conclusion that they reached - that Lewis had gained an unfair advantage - then, as I understand it, they had only two choices in terms of sanction - a drive-through or a 10-place grid penalty for Monza. They chose the tough sell...

<think>

I'm not sure that he is really getting the point of the people who are aggrieved about this. My personal feeling is that, previously, to aviod a penalty for overtaking off course, merely letting the driver back past you was enough. That has been a well established guideline for many years and that was the basis for Lewis's actions. Now, the stewards on sunday have decided to change all that and have imposed a penalty despite previous pressidents. The fact that many well respected motorsports personalities, including several racing legends (notably Nikki Lauda) have lambasted this decision. This isn't purely down to PR, these are people who know what they are talking about. Unless Nikki Lauda can be accused of being a Lewis bum boy (highly unlikely).
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AndyW76
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Just what I've been saying all along.

http://www.sportinglife.com/formula1/news/...ual_092936.html

Quote:
 
............. the telemetry that proves that Hamilton surrendered that perceived extra momentum by lifting at the start of the straight, ensuring that, as their two cars crossed the start-finish line, Hamilton was 6kmph slower than Raikkonen.

He was then, almost instantaneously, able to catch and pass Raikkonen under braking into La Source because of the superior pace and handling of the McLaren in the wet - a superiority that had seen Hamilton wipe out the Finn's five-second lead at the final round of pit-stops within a handful of laps when rain began to fall.

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Alien_SAP_Fiend
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Watch this quickly before it gets taken down.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6ovii_ww...iltonkimi_sport

0.56 Hamilton storms into the corner, half a car length BEHIND Kimi
0.57 realises that he won't make it, cuts the chicane,
1.00 does NOT lift off to let Kimi past, he's accelerating through the gears
1.06 gets behind Kimi long enough for a tow
1.07 immediately storms past him again into the next corner.

Ballsy stuff and technically, he did give the place back, but he did it only long enough for a tow into the next corner

Incidentally, you can see that Kimi's spin later (3.10) is due to a back marker on the racing line.
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dcoulthard19
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That quote from sportinglife is exactly how I see it as well.

Hamilton wouldn't have got past in the dry due to the turbulent air therefore we wouldn't be having this conversation now.

It was wet and there was a huge gulf in the handling of the Ferrari and the Mclaren and that's why Hamilton was able to gain what he had given back to Kimi so quickly.

In my view the stewards were too hasty in making their decision.

When they were deciding MS's penalty in Monaco in 2006 they took far more time and got the decision right.

F1 should hire full time stewards in order to have more consistency.
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