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| Hamilton demoted to 3rd | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 7 2008, 04:16 PM (5,644 Views) | |
| Norbert | Sep 8 2008, 01:19 PM Post #181 |
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Well, the first one was Massa, so that's McLaren knackered.....
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| u4coffee | Sep 8 2008, 01:20 PM Post #182 |
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Just Married
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Didn't he go off track when Kimi past him?
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| Bear | Sep 8 2008, 01:23 PM Post #183 |
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Chief Engineer
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People crucified Massa after the Brit race, but in Spa he was much better than Kimi or Lewis at keeping it on the track. His mature and considered approach compares starkly with Macca/Lewis/Kimi. |
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| AndyW76 | Sep 8 2008, 01:27 PM Post #184 |
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Team Boss
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Now you are being plain silly. Unless you have driven a 200MPH single seater on the limit on dry tyres on a soaking track, how could you possibly judge if he could make the corner. The fact is that you opinion is swayed by allegance. What is your opinion on Schumacher cutting corners to defend his position at the Hunoring in 2006? That went completely unpunished, yet he undoubtedly gained an advantage in doing so. Let's just remember that we should be consistent.
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| dazzerjp | Sep 8 2008, 01:29 PM Post #185 |
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Chief Engineer
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1st corner |
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| dazzerjp | Sep 8 2008, 01:30 PM Post #186 |
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Chief Engineer
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Have you borrowed Johns trolling hat for the day? |
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| Bear | Sep 8 2008, 01:30 PM Post #187 |
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Chief Engineer
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Why is the truth trolling? Good grief. |
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| AndyW76 | Sep 8 2008, 01:31 PM Post #188 |
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Team Boss
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Actually it was kimi that went off the track to pass massa at the start. I didn't notice whether Massa had an off. I think a few people on here are missing your point. Surely it is the daftness of punishing people for leaving the track in such difficult conditions that makes the penalty so absured. Also, I don't recall a single case in recent F1 history where someone was punished for merely leaving the track. Remember Japan last year when Kubica and Massa were constantly off the track yet not punished. |
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| AndyW76 | Sep 8 2008, 01:39 PM Post #189 |
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Team Boss
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Well, seeing as you are only giving your opinion, it doesn't necessarily qualify as the truth. The facts are as follows: - Lewis got alongside Kimi into the bustop. Kimi held his line. Lewis left the track to avoid contact with kimi. Lewis rejoined the track ahead of kimi. Lewis allowed kimi to pass him before the end of the lap (telemetry indicating that Kimi crossed the S/F Line 6KPH faster than Lewis). Lewis proceeds to follow directly behind kimi on the approach to La Source. Lewis passed Kimi into La Source taking the lead. Now if you can put timings and exact positions for each car and simulate what would have happened if Lewis hasn't attempted the pass at the busstop, only then could you prove whether or not Lewis gained an advantage. In fact, I believe that if lewis hadn't attempted the initial pass, he would have taken Kimi at la source anyway. |
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| Bear | Sep 8 2008, 01:39 PM Post #190 |
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Chief Engineer
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http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=James_Allen&id=43872 This explains things quite calmly. If the stewards think Hamilton didn't do enough to give back the advantage, then that's fair enough ... they make the decisions and clearly spent time thinking about things. With all the data and views they must have had, why do people find it so hard to accept their reasoned decision? Just because you don't agree with a decision, it doesn't mean the decision was wrong. I think ANY driver who did what Lewis did should have been punished. |
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| Bear | Sep 8 2008, 01:40 PM Post #191 |
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Chief Engineer
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In that bit, I was talking about Massa and said he was the better driver on the day at keeping it on the track. That is the truth. |
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| AndyW76 | Sep 8 2008, 01:43 PM Post #192 |
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Team Boss
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Yet there is a they large consensus of opinion that the decision was wrong. Anyway, if that is what you believe, do you think Schumacher should have been punished for his actions at Hungary 2006. If you need reminding, he went off to prevent Pedro De La Rossa from passing him and also Heidfeld, yet there was not punishment issued and he actually scored a point despite not going the full race distance. Or are you avoiding my question because it reveals an uncomfortable truth?
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| Bear | Sep 8 2008, 01:43 PM Post #193 |
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Chief Engineer
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You are right. Lewis might well have been able to take Kimi at La Source if he hadn't made the botched attempt in the last corner. But because he did make a botched move, there is no way if he had stayed on the racing line he could have passed Kimi at La Source. I totally agree with you ... and I think you actually prove the point I've been making for the last 2 days. |
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| AndyW76 | Sep 8 2008, 01:48 PM Post #194 |
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Team Boss
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Well, that is a matter of opinion. Yes, Massa did not go off but there was no way he could have kept up with Lewis and kimi in the final laps. The fact that Kimi binned it trying to keep up with Lewis shows the mclaren's superiority in the conditions. The only conclusion you can make from that is not that Massa was the better driver but the more careful. Take Prost and Senna, Prost was always more careful that Senna and as a result had fewer accident, yet Senna is still considered the better driver. |
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| Bear | Sep 8 2008, 01:51 PM Post #195 |
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Chief Engineer
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A large consensus means nothing. Only the stewards had all the data. Lots of people believed at one time that if you sailed far enough you'd fall off the end of the world ... with data and knowledge we don't believe that any more. So I don't care what any large or small group thinks ... I'm only concerned with what I have seen with my own eyes ... which has been supported by the stewards' decision. I don't remember the 2006 incident you refer to ... but it sounds like Schumi should have been punished. As he should have been punished for the move in Oz on Hill. I am NOT a Ferrari fan, if that is what you are thinking. |
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