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Ferrari's Kimi Raikkonen hit back at critics
Topic Started: Aug 27 2008, 07:45 PM (952 Views)
RJHSaints
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Red Andy,Sep 1 2008
09:07 AM
The theory that Kimi's poor form of late is down to motivation, and not just the car, is supported by the decline in his performance levels from the start of the season. At the beginning of 2008 he was performing better than Massa - so much so that, in attempting to keep up with Kimi, Massa was pressured into a race-ending mistake in Malaysia. But as the season has progressed and Felipe has improved, Kimi's form has dropped off. It is possible that new developments of Ferrari's car have helped Massa and hindered Kimi's driving style, but I would personally doubt that any mid-season changes would be able to significantly affect such fundamentals as balance and handling.

The problem Kimi has is that, on a hot, dry day with a decent setup, Massa can outperform practically anybody - including Kimi. If he wants to get back into the title race, he will have to wait for some adverse conditions where Felipe does not cope quite so well. But with time rapidly running out and Ferrari just about mulling over which horse they should back for the rest of the season, it may be all over for Raikkonen.

Actually, even at the start of the year, Massa was a match for Raikkonen. At Malaysia, he outqualified him by half a second, and although Raikkonen pulled aay in the second stint, I'd put that down to Massa losing concentration - his lap times were pretty erratic in that race.

Australia is impossible to judge because both Ferrari drivers were so poor, but Massa had initially recovered well from his first-lap cock-up, until he got involved with DC later on.

I have always said the two are pretty much level on performance and over the two seasonsI think that is borne out by the facts.

I do not buy into the idea that Raikkonen is simply suffering from a lack of motivation; for me, it is just that Massa has the upper hand at this particular stage of the season.
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AndyW76
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John,Sep 1 2008
08:57 PM
everythingoes,Sep 1 2008
09:57 AM
Its even more interesting if you look at the car in the background. The picture was taken much before the move from McLaren was confirmed.

No conspiracy... racing drivers like fast cars... and well paid racing rivers like exclusive top end motors...

I've seen photos of Michael Schumacher's McLaren road car...

Well the real caonspiracy starts when Schumi is seen wearing anything other than a Dekra cap. <roflmao>
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John
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Schumacher stopped wearing Dekra caps in 2000, from 2001 he wore DVAG caps <thumbsup>
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AndyW76
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John,Sep 2 2008
09:21 AM
Schumacher stopped wearing Dekra caps in 2000, from 2001 he wore DVAG caps <thumbsup>

Isn't it pretty much the same company under a different name?
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John
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Deutsche Vermögensberatung AG which in English loosely translates as "German fortune advisors", is a German Multi-level marketing investment company based in Frankfurt, Germany.

DEKRA is an Automotive supplier...
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AndyW76
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John,Sep 2 2008
09:43 AM
Deutsche Vermögensberatung AG which in English loosely translates as "German fortune advisors", is a German Multi-level marketing investment company based in Frankfurt, Germany.

DEKRA is an Automotive supplier...

I see.
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Rob
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John,Sep 2 2008
04:43 AM
Deutsche Vermögensberatung AG which in English loosely translates as "German fortune advisors", is a German Multi-level marketing investment company based in Frankfurt, Germany.

DEKRA is an Automotive supplier...

I have one of the Deutsche Vermögensberatung, never knew what it meant....
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Red Andy
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Rams,Sep 1 2008
09:43 AM
Red Andy,Sep 1 2008
09:22 AM
2005 San Marino GP: Raikkonen makes too many practice starts at the beginning of the race and busts his driveshaft - 12 points (relative to Alonso) lost.

2005 European GP: Raikkonen flat-spots his tyre and suffers a last-lap blowout - 12 points (relative to Alonso) lost. That's 24 points lost through two driver errors.

At the San Marino GP he made the same number of practice starts as he always did - McLaren failure (Ron Dennis admitted this). European GP was his only mistake of the season.

Quote:
 
Kimi loses the 2005 world championship by 21 points. In other words, even with all the unreliability he had in '05, Kimi would still have won the title if he hadn't made those two mistakes.

So he could have scored 21 points in those 2 races?

Malaysia - faulty tyre valve drops him from 3rd to 9th
San Marino - drive shaft failure
French GP - engine blow up costing him 10 places at one of the hardest tracks to overtake
British GP - engine blow up grid penalty
Germany GP - Hydraulics failure
Italian GP - engine blow up grid penalty, then tyre delamination

That cost him a lot more than 21 points. Suggesting that his one mistake of the season cost him the title is utter BS tbh.

Regarding San Marino, Martin Whitmarsh admitted later in the season that the driveshaft failure had been Kimi's doing - the team had warned him not to make too many practice starts and he ignored them.

I said that, through two mistakes, Kimi lost 24 points relative to Alonso, because in both cases Alonso inherited victory from Kimi, therefore giving him ten points instead of the eight he would otherwise have scored from second place.

I take your point about the unreliability Kimi suffered throughout 2005. However, my point is not that Kimi lost the title solely through driver errors. My point is that it is incorrect to assert that the only reason Raikkonen did not win the 2005 world title is due to unreliability with the car. He could have won the title, even with all the unreliability, if he had not made those two mistakes.
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Rams
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Red Andy,Sep 3 2008
07:25 PM
Regarding San Marino, Martin Whitmarsh admitted later in the season that the driveshaft failure had been Kimi's doing - the team had warned him not to make too many practice starts and he ignored them.

[citation needed]

Quote:
 
I take your point about the unreliability Kimi suffered throughout 2005. However, my point is not that Kimi lost the title solely through driver errors. My point is that it is incorrect to assert that the only reason Raikkonen did not win the 2005 world title is due to unreliability with the car. He could have won the title, even with all the unreliability, if he had not made those two mistakes.

My point is that reliability cost Kimi a lot more than 1 or maybe 2 mistakes that season, I can think of one mistake Alonso made at Canada. If Alonso and Kimi made a similair number of errors, but Kimi suffered much worse reliability, the only sensible conclusion to draw is that poor reliablility cost him the title.

IIRC Kimi won the Autosport driver of the year title and F1 Racing's man of the year title too. He was regarded as probably the best driver that year, and was very much the people's champion.
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Red Andy
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Rams,Sep 3 2008
09:08 PM
Red Andy,Sep 3 2008
07:25 PM
Regarding San Marino, Martin Whitmarsh admitted later in the season that the driveshaft failure had been Kimi's doing - the team had warned him not to make too many practice starts and he ignored them.

[citation needed]

F1 Racing, December 2006, p. 25 (Peter Windsor's column):

Quote:
 
I was troubled for a long time by Imola 2005, when Kimi drove away from the field in the early stages of the race before stopping with (we were told by McLaren) a broken driveshaft. Minutes after he slowed, however, one of Kimi's management team, Dave Robertson, turned to me and another journalist and said, "We know what happened. And we're not happy about it." ....

The other day, however, I finally heard that Kimi's Imola problem may have been self-inflicted. McLaren had instructed him before the race to carry out no more than three practice starts. By the time the lights went out, Kimi (probably because he was worried about rear tyre temperature) had dropped the clutch five times. F1 cars should be built to finish - but drivers should in return respect the parameters of the car's operation ....

My recollection that Whitmarsh had something to do with it was mistaken, and Windsor does not cite his source, but that's not uncommon in F1. In any case, Windsor is usually pretty reliable.

I have to disagree with the popular consensus that Kimi was the best driver of 2005, simply because those two errors were way too costly. He had the faster car, and on two of the days where it could all have gone right for him, he threw it away. Alonso made that error at Canada, granted, but as it turned out he was in a position to do so, so that mistake was less significant in the long run. That is why I believe Kimi cannot blame poor reliability alone for losing the 2005 WDC.
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Rams
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But it was clear that the reliability was more costly. That is undisputable. Ferrari decided from that year and 2003 that Raikkonen was the best driver in the sport to hire as M Schumacher's replacement. It's arguable who was better out of Kimi and Alonso, but you'll find noone in the F1 world blamed Kimi's mistakes for him not winning the 2003 and 2005 title. He won the Autosport driver of the year title for a reason.
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vikki
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Red Andy,Sep 3 2008
08:48 PM

In any case, Windsor is usually pretty reliable.




liz windsor? yes i would agree. book her for a gig like the opening of parliament or whatever and she will turn up on time, know her lines, get the job done.

peter windsor? long since given up believing anything he writes. or indeed reading it.especially since it will change with the flow anyway. one particulary annoying habit he used to have was to say "as I predicted " when actually looking back the events that occured were in fact the exact opposite of what he had predicted.ar$e.
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Rob
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Red Andy,Sep 3 2008
03:48 PM
I have to disagree with the popular consensus that Kimi was the best driver of 2005,

Good for you, it's your right to disagree. That doesn't mean the masses won't disagree right back. <thumbsup>

I think it's a bit unfair to pin losing the 05 WDC on Kimi when he made one more terminal mistake that Alonso in 05, and the team made many more than Kimi did. Please note that in either France or Brittan (cannot remember which right now) Kimi blew a brand new engine in the first free practice, a driver would have to be VERY hard on the car for that to be driver error.

McLaren would have had to eliminate only 2 of 5-6 huge errors to have won Kimi the 05 WDC (aprox 30-40%) where Kimi would have had to eliminate 100% of his huge errors to have been the 05 champ.

I'm not saying Kimi was perfect in 05, yes Alonso did less than Kimi to lose the title in 05, but McLaren did much much less than Renault did to win it.
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Red Andy
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Rob,Sep 3 2008
10:43 PM
I think it's a bit unfair to pin losing the 05 WDC on Kimi when he made one more terminal mistake that Alonso in 05, and the team made many more than Kimi did. Please note that in either France or Brittan (cannot remember which right now) Kimi blew a brand new engine in the first free practice, a driver would have to be VERY hard on the car for that to be driver error.

I think the idea that Kimi was somehow responsible for blowing up his own engines in 2005 has long since been laid to rest. But then I'll reiterate my point: the poor reliability of the McLaren car cannot be blamed as the only reason for Kimi losing the 2005 title. Often the mistakes Kimi made throughout the season (and I haven't brought up his stalling on the grid in Australia, which likely cost him several points) are overlooked because of the unreliability he suffered, which I think is unjustified.

Oh, and Rob, another way of looking at it is that Kimi made twice as many mistakes as Alonso. ;)
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Rob
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In all reality Kimi did make twice the mistakes Alonso did, and it was also 1 more.

Kimi did make some mistakes so he does share some blame, so I guess 66% to 34% would be fair.
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