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Should Massa have been punished?
Topic Started: Aug 24 2008, 02:09 PM (2,091 Views)
John
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Red Andy,Aug 26 2008
01:00 PM
In the Premiership, the punishment for violent conduct is clearly laid out in the rules - a red card.

In Formula One, there is no set punishment for breaking a rule like Article 23.1 - the stewards can hand out whatever punishment they feel is appropriate.

Jeeez... don't bring rational argument into the debate now.... <doh>
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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Rams,Aug 26 2008
11:56 AM
Blaming Sutil is stupid, what on earth did Massa expect him to do, drive up the pit wall?

It looked to me like Sutil did actually scuff the pit wall so you're not far wrong.
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stradlin24
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John,Aug 26 2008
12:58 PM
stradlin23,Aug 26 2008
12:51 PM
It seems to be that Ferrari, their ‘fans’, the stewards and the FIA just make up rules as they go along

Of course that is not true...

but for argument sake let's suspend reality and say it was true... the fact it winds up the anti-Ferrari 'mob' is just the icing on the cake....

<roflmao> <roflmao> <roflmao> <roflmao>

Suspend reality eh John?

A bit like your pathetic EU medals table?! Eh, didn’t see that one coming did you laddo

Two can play that game

<roflmao> <roflmao> <roflmao> <roflmao> <thumbsup>
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AndyW76
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From my perspective, if force india (or any other team for that matter) felt that massa deserved a drive through, they didn't state it. As it happens, the entire grid were satisfied at the stewards' course of action and we should leave it at that. Ferrari have been warned to take more care over their pit procedure and Massa has been hit in the pocket. OK he can afford 10,000 euros but it is still a significant quantity of money. Like I said before, a Massa penalty would have benefitted Hamilton and that would have pleased me but I feel that the stewards taking a balanced view and implementing a fine instead of an ontrack penalty was the only fair way to go. I hope that this incident has woke the entire field because dangerous pit releases are pretty common at the moment and it is only a matter of time before there is a serious collision in the pits that injures several team personel.
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John
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stradlin23,Aug 26 2008
01:11 PM
Eh, didn’t see that one coming...............

Matt...... Everthing you say..... I can see comming <thumbsup>
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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Red Andy,Aug 26 2008
12:02 PM
As it hurt Hamilton for using two sets of wet tyres in Brazil ....

I don't ever recall condoning that call or fighting in Lewis's corner.

I'm only interested in consistency. Breaking the rules in the race should be punished in terms of it's effect on the race, a 10,000 euro fine is nothing.

What Massa/Ferrari did was far more dangerous than exiting the pit lane under a red light and yet for that he was balck flagged.

Of course running the red light is not with out it's danger which is why it was imposed in the first place, but putting it into perspective, Massa was black flagged for what MIGHT have happened, but not (effectively) punished for what actually DID happen.

I'd be equally bothered if Hamilton had done this, or Button, or any other driver. The fact that it was Ferrari/Massa is irrelevant.

I was bothered when LH got a lift out of the gravel, i was annoyed when the Ferraris ran inters in monsoon conditions, I was even peed off when BAR attemtped to gain advantage with their fuel tank issue.
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John
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TheCompleteGuitarist,Aug 26 2008
01:17 PM
The fact that it was Ferrari... is irrelevant.

Now keep saying that over and over again and you just might convince us... in time <thumbsup>
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Red Andy
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TCG: The reference to Hamilton and his Brazil infringement was not to suggest that you had backed him on that occasion, and certainly not to suggest that your judgements are clouded by partisan leanings, but to reinforce my point that perhaps the FIA are wary of artifically altering a race result by imposing penalties; they would much rather impose penalties that do not affect a race, particularly when there is a championship at stake.

To my knowledge, in F1 it has been a very long time since a penalty has been applied to a similar incident to the one in Valencia. If Dazzer's recollection of events (found earlier in the thread) is correct, the most recent example of someone being punished for an unsafe release in the pit lane happened when it actually caused a collision. Numerous offences more similar to Massa's - I point again to the Alonso/Vettel incident in Germany this year - have passed by without punishment for anyone involved. Like Vettel, Massa did not cause an accident despite his actions. If you are interested in consistency, surely the same leniency as granted to Vettel should have applied to Massa? Yet he was punished.

I take your point about the Canada black flag for Massa last season, the punishment being based on what could potentially have happened rather than what did happen. But when we are looking at precedents and determining consistency, it is surely most helpful to look at examples that are more similar. Running the pit lane red light is covered under a different regulation to the unsafe release from a pit stop. Violations of the same regulation to the one Massa broke, where no car has been damaged and nobody injured, have not been punished in the past. Massa was, but apparently this is not enough for those who would prefer to have seen the race decided artificially.
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Bear
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Nothing happened. It wasn't even potentially dangerous. The two cars were going so slowly that even if they had hit each other, no one would have been injured. F1 has got so dull, we end up talking about slow speed non-events. This was nothing more than 2 cars in a car park edging for the same parking space. Dull.
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AndyW76
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Bear,Aug 26 2008
01:04 PM
Nothing happened. It wasn't even potentially dangerous. The two cars were going so slowly that even if they had hit each other, no one would have been injured. F1 has got so dull, we end up talking about slow speed non-events. This was nothing more than 2 cars in a car park edging for the same parking space. Dull.

Actually both cars were travelling at 80KPH which could have resulted in a serious injury to any bystander if hit by them, including the cameraman crouched in a daft position. Remember, if you are hit at a road car at 40MPH, you have an 80% chance of dying, imagine the result of an F1 car with loads of sharp edges and winglets. The human body is not as robust as you think.
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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John,Aug 26 2008
12:20 PM
TheCompleteGuitarist,Aug 26 2008
01:17 PM
The fact that it was Ferrari... is irrelevant.

Now keep saying that over and over again and you just might convince us... in time <thumbsup>

I can't make it an unFerrari isssue now can I.
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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Bear,Aug 26 2008
01:04 PM
Nothing happened. It wasn't even potentially dangerous. The two cars were going so slowly that even if they had hit each other, no one would have been injured. F1 has got so dull, we end up talking about slow speed non-events. This was nothing more than 2 cars in a car park edging for the same parking space. Dull.

Try telling that to the Refueller who nearly lost his head
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AndyW76
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TheCompleteGuitarist,Aug 26 2008
05:03 PM
Bear,Aug 26 2008
01:04 PM
Nothing happened. It wasn't even potentially dangerous. The two cars were going so slowly that even if they had hit each other, no one would have been injured. F1 has got so dull, we end up talking about slow speed non-events. This was nothing more than 2 cars in a car park edging for the same parking space. Dull.

Try telling that to the Refueller who nearly lost his head

Or the poor indy car marshall that was run over by Willy T Ribbs at Surfers.
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