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Should Massa have been punished?
Topic Started: Aug 24 2008, 02:09 PM (2,094 Views)
PiquetFan
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AndyW76,Aug 26 2008
12:19 PM
I think I'll sit on the fence on this one. I agree that there was a potential for an accident and that may be the release of Massa was a bit risky, but also, the nature of the pitlane actually cause as much of the problem. The exit to the pit is way too narrow and curves and the danger is compounded by the saefty car being parked in an obstructive position. What I want to know is, are the stewards for the GP2 races the same ones for F1. We can all argue about consistency but remember that these things can come down to individual interpretation. Obviously, as a Hamilton fan, a penalty for Massa would have been a nice result but I won't let my personal allegance sway my opinion, if the stewards and other teams are happy then so am I.

Now that's "calling it down the middle". Excellent post, Andy <clap> <thumbsup>
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everythingoes
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AndyW76,Aug 26 2008
03:53 PM
From the replay, the lioght certainly wasn't green. On the whole, a rather dissatisfactory weekend from Kimi. I think Ferrari need to have words with him.

Perhaps words to the effect - shape up or ship out? ;)
I like Kimi, but his performance in the last couple of races has been woeful. I cannot believe that he's still not able to get his car tuned in for qualifying. Maybe theres some truth in the talk that he's not too keen on the development and technical aspects of the car. Either way its seriously hampering his own cause.
For Kimi's sake, I hope he gets it sorted very quickly. I like to see the red cars finish 1 & 2 :P
Perhaps he should ask Schumi for some tips <roflmao>
<peek>
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stradlin24
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PiquetFan,Aug 26 2008
11:27 AM
AndyW76,Aug 26 2008
12:19 PM
I think I'll sit on the fence on this one. I agree that there was a potential for an accident and that may be the release of Massa was a bit risky, but also, the nature of the pitlane actually cause as much of the problem. The exit to the pit is way too narrow and curves and the danger is compounded by the saefty car being parked in an obstructive position. What I want to know is, are the stewards for the GP2 races the same ones for F1. We can all argue about consistency but remember that these things can come down to individual interpretation. Obviously, as a Hamilton fan, a penalty for Massa would have been a nice result but I won't let my personal allegance sway my opinion, if the stewards and other teams are happy then so am I.

Now that's "calling it down the middle". Excellent post, Andy <clap> <thumbsup>

<sleep> <sleep> <sleep>
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AndyW76
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everythingoes,Aug 26 2008
10:28 AM
AndyW76,Aug 26 2008
03:53 PM
From the replay, the lioght certainly wasn't green. On the whole, a rather dissatisfactory weekend from Kimi. I think Ferrari need to have words with him.

Perhaps words to the effect - shape up or ship out? ;)
I like Kimi, but his performance in the last couple of races has been woeful. I cannot believe that he's still not able to get his car tuned in for qualifying. Maybe theres some truth in the talk that he's not too keen on the development and technical aspects of the car. Either way its seriously hampering his own cause.
For Kimi's sake, I hope he gets it sorted very quickly. I like to see the red cars finish 1 & 2 :P
Perhaps he should ask Schumi for some tips <roflmao>
<peek>

I'm wondering if he is having the same problem as early last year. When Schumi attended races, he always had trouble yet Massa always performed well. <think>

But seriously, it is certainly not the ferrari car under performing because Massa is proving otherwise. If kimi doesn't wake up, he will soon find himself supporting Massa.
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stradlin24
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Nice to see that Ferrari-fans.co.uk (sorry, I mean pit-lane.co.uk) has made a decision about the penalty that they are deluded enough to think is correct

I would just love to see exactly the same thing happen next week involving a McLaren, or even the past week

It would have been so much different and all you ‘fans’ know it

My call would be exactly the same however.
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Pebs
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AndyW76,Aug 26 2008
10:38 AM
If kimi doesn't wake up, he will soon find himself supporting Massa.

I like that idea <peek>
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u4coffee
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everythingoes,Aug 26 2008
11:18 AM
u4coffee,Aug 26 2008
03:47 PM
everythingoes,Aug 26 2008
11:12 AM

As to the Ferrari system, I doubt a lollipop man would have made a difference. Kimi really just wanted to go! <doh>

Maybe someone standing in front of him would have deterred him somewhat. <think>

I doubt Kimi would have given a s**t even then <roflmao>

<roflmao>
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AndyW76
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PiquetFan,Aug 26 2008
10:27 AM
AndyW76,Aug 26 2008
12:19 PM
I think I'll sit on the fence on this one. I agree that there was a potential for an accident and that may be the release of Massa was a bit risky, but also, the nature of the pitlane actually cause as much of the problem. The exit to the pit is way too narrow and curves and the danger is compounded by the saefty car being parked in an obstructive position. What I want to know is, are the stewards for the GP2 races the same ones for F1. We can all argue about consistency but remember that these things can come down to individual interpretation. Obviously, as a Hamilton fan, a penalty for Massa would have been a nice result but I won't let my personal allegance sway my opinion, if the stewards and other teams are happy then so am I.

Now that's "calling it down the middle". Excellent post, Andy <clap> <thumbsup>

Thanks <thumbsup>

It was Mark Blundell's statement after the race that swung me. It's better to keep an open mind.
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AndyW76
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Pebs,Aug 26 2008
10:40 AM
AndyW76,Aug 26 2008
10:38 AM
If kimi doesn't wake up, he will soon find himself supporting Massa.

I like that idea <peek>

Well, as I see it, unless Ferrari hold Massa back, he is their best chance for the WDC this year.
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John
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stradlin23,Aug 26 2008
11:39 AM
Nice to see that Ferrari-fans.co.uk (sorry, I mean pit-lane.co.uk)....

<roflmao> Stradlin is a moderator on Ferrari-fans.co.uk <clap>
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Lord Tau
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stradlin23,Aug 26 2008
11:39 AM
Nice to see that Ferrari-fans.co.uk (sorry, I mean pit-lane.co.uk) has made a decision about the penalty that they are deluded enough to think is correct

I would just love to see exactly the same thing happen next week involving a McLaren, or even the past week

It would have been so much different and all you ‘fans’ know it

My call would be exactly the same however.

You mean something, say, like this: http://the-pit-lane.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=11295

<whistle> <peek>
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AndyW76
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stradlin23,Aug 26 2008
10:39 AM
Nice to see that Ferrari-fans.co.uk (sorry, I mean pit-lane.co.uk) has made a decision about the penalty that they are deluded enough to think is correct

I would just love to see exactly the same thing happen next week involving a McLaren, or even the past week

It would have been so much different and all you ‘fans’ know it

My call would be exactly the same however.

To be fair, we've seen plenty of ropey pit releases go unpunished this year and to set a precidentnow would open a huge can of worms. I feel that, unless a protest is issued by the offended party, there really isn't much of a case to answer. Of course, if a collision does occur then a punishment is warranted.
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Red Andy
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Has anybody considered the fact that Massa was punished with a fine after the race rather than an in-race penalty because the Stewards and the FIA do not wish to be seen to be tampering with an increasingly close championship battle?

We all remember 2006 where Fernando Alonso was given a couple of draconian penalties towards the end of the season, coupled with the banning of Renault's mass damper which coincidentally came just before the summer testing ban. There was a lot of accusation at the time that the FIA were attempting to curb Alonso's success in order to hand the world championships to Ferrari and Michael Schumacher. Whether the accusations had any basis in reality or not, the publicity was still bad for the FIA.

By giving Massa a drive-through penalty for his infringement on Sunday, the race would have been handed to Hamilton, and everyone knew this. Everyone also knows that Massa had by far the best race on Sunday and therefore deserved to win on merit; moreover, his pit lane incident with Sutil had no bearing on his advantage over Hamilton and was therefore immaterial as to whether he won the race. If the race had been handed to Hamilton in such an artificial way, it is certainly possible that the Stewards could have been accused of favouring McLaren and Lewis in the championship chase - especially if Hamilton were to win the title by less than the four points (relative to Massa) that he would have gained had he won the race ahead of Massa.

Remember Brazil last year, where Lewis illegally used two sets of wet tyres in the Saturday free practice session and, instead of being given a grid penalty as established by precedent earlier in the season, was fined. At the time many people thought this was favouritism, but now I begin to understand that the FIA are actually trying to let the championship run its natural course, rather than making decisions that effectively decide who is going to win the title away from the race track. The same argument applies to the decision not to punish BMW and Williams for the "cool fuel" debacle at the Brazilian GP last year.
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everythingoes
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AndyW76,Aug 26 2008
04:08 PM
I'm wondering if he is having the same problem as early last year. When Schumi attended races, he always had trouble yet Massa always performed well. <think>

I gave up on that theory because iirc, Kimi actually won a race with MS in attendance.
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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$10,000 Euro fine is nothing more than the effort of having to go into his wallet.

I'm only concerned about consistency, it's annoying to say the least especially considering what happend in GP2, but Planet F1 make a good point

Quote:
 
And finally, they set the most dangerous precedent of delaying Felipe Massa's "unsafe pit-stop release " decision for no real reason and set the tariff for dangerous driving in the pitlane at a mere 10,000 euros.

Effectively what they have said to the teams is that they can let their driver out into a narrow pitlane near another car and the most they can expect to get is a 10,000 euro fine. In the past we have had races where Michael Schumacher has grazed the pitlane exit line with half a tyre (all on his own, no cars around) and been given a drive-though penalty.

http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3265_4043190,00.html
Apparently, it was Sutils fault. <roflmao>
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