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Should Massa have been punished?
Topic Started: Aug 24 2008, 02:09 PM (2,096 Views)
Norbert
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Rams,Aug 24 2008
11:17 PM
It was funny when Allen said "it seems the Spanish fans have forgiven Lewis" when they were clearly booing him.

Who cares? Alonso didn't even start the second lap, and Lewis was second, so they can sod off!! lol
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Rob
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Red Andy,Aug 24 2008
11:47 AM
Nomad,Aug 24 2008
04:46 PM
I can't speak to the FIA rules but in the Sports Car Club of America (FIA member organization) the driver is responsible for the actions or omisions  of his/her team.

I think this is a reasonable position to take; however, in F1, it is not the case as clearly demonstrated by several examples over the last few years.

In the 1995 Brazilian GP, the Benetton of Michael Schumacher and the Williams of David Coulthard were excluded from their respective first and second positions due to "fuel irregularities." Upon appeal, however, Schumacher and Coulthard were reinstated but Benetton and Williams docked Constructor's points from the race, on the basis that Schumacher and Coulthard had no real control over what fuel went into their car, and therefore the responsibility for the irregularity lay solely with the team. Moreover, there was nothing in the fuel that was deemed to give it an unfair advantage; it was just different to the control sample supplied to the FIA. As such the drivers kept their points but the teams were punished.

Then in 2000, at the Austrian GP, Mika Hakkinen won the race but his McLaren team were denied the ten Constructor's points for his victory, because a seal was missing on one of his car's parts. Again, Hakkinen was not personally to blame for the incident, and the missing seal conveyed no real performance advantage, so only the team was punished.

And obviously last year we had the Spygate saga. This is an extraordinary case in that even though McLaren had access to large amounts of confidential Ferrari data and almost certainly used it in the development of their car, their drivers were not excluded from the championship even though the team was disqualified from the Constructor's race. Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso, as McLaren drivers, undoubtedly benefited from their team's illegal activities, yet were not punished as they were not proven to have been personally involved in the espionage.

What all this suggests is that the team is responsible for their own actions or omissions, and if the driver is not directly involved then they are not considered to be culpable by the F1 authorities. To my mind this is a dangerous grey area and an approach such as that taken by the Sports Car Club of America would be far simpler, but unfortunately the F1 authorities have chosen not to take this path, and this is what we have to deal with as a result.

Totally agree. And thanks for saving me the time of having to post something very similar. <thumbsup>
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dazzerjp
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Rob,Aug 25 2008
10:56 AM
Totally agree. And thanks for saving me the time of having to post something very similar. <thumbsup>

which compounds the mistake then, as Massa was fined 10,00 euros.
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stradlin24
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notice not even one Ferrari fan has done the big thing and admitted that Massa should have had a penalty

not one of them can see beyond their rose tinted spectacles

the hypocrisy from some of them is sickening!!

as this place is dominated by them it's no wonder the poll is how it is

very sad but not suprising

once again staking their claim to the worst fans in motorsport

well done
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everythingoes
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stradlin23,Aug 25 2008
03:14 PM
notice not even one Ferrari fan has done the big thing and admitted that Massa should have had a penalty

not one of them can see beyond their rose tinted spectacles

the hypocrisy from some of them is sickening!!

as this place is dominated by them it's no wonder the poll is how it is

very sad but not suprising

once again staking their claim to the worst fans in motorsport

well done

<cry> <cry> <cry>
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r0bm867
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I agree with those who say Hamilton would have got done for this. You all know it to be true. I still think that there is an anti-mclaren conspiracy. It would stand to reason, the Fia probably consider it fishy it hamilton wins the wc one year after spygate, maybe they want to prevent it without being too suspicious
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stradlin24
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Steelstallions,Aug 24 2008
07:20 PM
I don't know the rules on side by side cars in the Pit, so can only guess how they should be administered.
But as far as i could see, Ferrari released him onto the track and he was side by side with the other car and then Massa let the other car through.

What's the big deal?,

Its not like he forced him into the wall or ran into the side of him and ended his race.

Its not the first time i have seen cars side by side in the pits, the only difference on this occasion are that the cars did it at the last garage of the pit lane and Massa had to relent quicker than if they were side by side further down the pitlane.

it would be so different if Hamilton had been involved

i mean, there is even a thread on here about Hamilton complaining about traffic in a practice session

as if no other driver in the history of Formula 1 has ever complained about traffic

no matter, the next time any driver complains abour traffic we'll expect all the anti-hamilton members to post an angry thread about it

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Steelstallions
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stradlin23,Aug 25 2008
02:57 PM

it would be so different if Hamilton had been involved


I am sure it would.
The pussy cat dolls boyfriend would most likely have taken both cars out of the race like he did when the pit lane light was red <busted>











<whistle>
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Norbert
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stradlin23,Aug 25 2008
10:44 AM
notice not even one Ferrari fan has done the big thing and admitted that Massa should have had a penalty

not one of them can see beyond their rose tinted spectacles

the hypocrisy from some of them is sickening!!

as this place is dominated by them it's no wonder the poll is how it is

very sad but not suprising

once again staking their claim to the worst fans in motorsport

well done

A bit like berating NASCAR for penalising Joe Gibbs' cars too harshly when complaining about Hendrick not getting big enough penalties while being a Tony Stweart fan, you mean?

<think> <thumbsup>

Works both ways mate.....
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Norbert
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r0bm867,Aug 25 2008
03:50 PM
I agree with those who say Hamilton would have got done for this. You all know it to be true. I still think that there is an anti-mclaren conspiracy. It would stand to reason, the Fia probably consider it fishy it hamilton wins the wc one year after spygate, maybe they want to prevent it without being too suspicious

If McLaren win any titles this year I guess Ferrari will ask them for the royalties....

<sarcasm>

Or maybe it will simply be because their car is just as good as the real thing....
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stradlin24
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Norbert,Aug 25 2008
09:52 PM
stradlin23,Aug 25 2008
10:44 AM
notice not even one Ferrari fan has done the big thing and admitted that Massa should have had a penalty

not one of them can see beyond their rose tinted spectacles

the hypocrisy from some of them is sickening!!

as this place is dominated by them it's no wonder the poll is how it is

very sad but not suprising

once again staking their claim to the worst fans in motorsport

well done

A bit like berating NASCAR for penalising Joe Gibbs' cars too harshly when complaining about Hendrick not getting big enough penalties while being a Tony Stweart fan, you mean?

<think> <thumbsup>

Works both ways mate.....

since when have I been a Tony Stewart 'fan'?

I have lots of respect for his achievements as he is the ONLY IRL cross-over driver to win the NASCAR cup series....

The Gibbs penalties were over the top, read ANY motorsport forum and the vast majority will claim the same, the fact they penalised the DRIVERS 150 points was scandalous and this was just WEEKS after NASCAR had (in some opinions illegally) restricted the power of the Toyota engine

maybe you know, get the full facts first......

<thumbsup>
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Rob
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stradlin23,Aug 25 2008
03:58 PM

The Gibbs penalties were over the top, read ANY motorsport forum and the vast majority will claim the same, the fact they penalised the DRIVERS 150 points was scandalous and this was just WEEKS after NASCAR had (in some opinions illegally) restricted the power of the Toyota engine




As long as you have been watching NASCAR you should be full aware that the rules don't ever always make sense. They do what they want when they want not unlike the FIA).
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stradlin24
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Rob,Aug 25 2008
11:23 PM
stradlin23,Aug 25 2008
03:58 PM

The Gibbs penalties were over the top, read ANY motorsport forum and the vast majority will claim the same, the fact they penalised the DRIVERS 150 points was scandalous and this was just WEEKS after NASCAR had (in some opinions illegally) restricted the power of the Toyota engine




As long as you have been watching NASCAR you should be full aware that the rules don't ever always make sense. They do what they want when they want not unlike the FIA).

i know that...

and for all the shit i get for blasting f1 the more observant of you would know that i've been highley critical of NASCAR on many occasions

a fact that is often forgotten on here....
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u4coffee
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Rams,Aug 24 2008
03:09 PM
I vote Yes, exactly the same incident happenned in the GP2 race and the driver got punished, IMMEDIATELY, with a drive-thru penalty. There can be no excuses from the FIA about this. They have to start showing some consistency.

If the GP2 Incident got punished and was the same then Massa should have got punished too
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John
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No... there should be no penalty.... <nono>





















I mean if there was what the hell would all the conspiracy peddlers do with their lifes.... <think>




apart from maybe get one <doh>
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