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Should Massa have been punished?
Yes 14 (38.9%)
No 22 (61.1%)
Total Votes: 36
Should Massa have been punished?
Topic Started: Aug 24 2008, 02:09 PM (2,090 Views)
Rams
Chief Engineer
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I vote Yes, exactly the same incident happenned in the GP2 race and the driver got punished, IMMEDIATELY, with a drive-thru penalty. There can be no excuses from the FIA about this. They have to start showing some consistency.
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Lord Tau
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Yes. No doubt about it. He broke the rules, he was released into a dangerous position, therefore he should be punished. No ifs, ands or buts.

Failure to punish here sets a precedent for the future - a dangerous precedent.
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RJHSaints
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I vote No, as the incident wasn't really his fault and he slowed and got as far out of the way of Sutil as he could.

I suppose according to the letter of the law he should but I think a more reasonable punishment would be to fine Ferrari or deduct them constructor points.
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Rams
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It wasn't Massa's fault, and he did drive a very good race, granted.

But rules are rules and you can't let a driver off just because he's had a good race. It's totally unnacceptable.
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Red Andy
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No. The precedent has already been set in F1 before - if drivers are released in front of one another in the pit lane, a punishment only tends to be applied if one driver was unreasonably impeded. This is clearly against the written letter of the rules, but the written regulations are not the be-all and end-all of decision making in F1 - past precedents are at least as important, and in this case Massa's incident is similar to, say, Alonso vs. Vettel in Germany; there was no collision so nobody was punished (Alonso also escaped penalty for crossing the white line at the pit exit, which would normally carry a penalty, presumably for the extenuating circumstances of Vettel being in the way).

At worst I would expect Ferrari to lose the WCC points from the race - it was they who released Massa unsafely, and recently FIA precedent appears to point to punishing teams, not drivers, if the drivers were not directly involved. If anything Massa did well to avoid making the incident much worse.
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RJHSaints
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But you can give an appropriate punishment which doesn't affect a blameless party.

Edit: in response to Rams.
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PiquetFan
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No.

This incident is no different from many other situations in Grands Prix where drivers have occupied the same part of the pit lane. Massa clearly had the capacity to ensure that there was no collision (he backed off) and therefore there should be no further action.

LT's point about this setting a precedent - the precedent has already been set. And the same applies to Ram's point about consistency.

It seems to me that the commentating team of Allen and Brundle would have us belive that just because an incident is being investigated that action will invariably be taken. I would bet my house that if Hamilton had been the one involved we would have spent the rest of the race hearing why Hamilton should not be held responsible for his team's 'error'.
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dazzerjp
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PiquetFan,Aug 24 2008
11:22 PM

It seems to me that the commentating team of Allen and Brundle would have us belive that just because an incident is being investigated that action will invariably be taken. I would bet my house that if Hamilton had been the one involved we would have spent the rest of the race hearing why Hamilton should not be held responsible for his team's 'error'.

blimey, what a surpirse <dunce>

if it had been hammy, he would of at least received a 10 second grid penalty.

more likley he would have recevied a 10 min stop go, had all his assets frozen and deported to siberia.

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stradlin24
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dazzerjp,Aug 24 2008
03:24 PM
PiquetFan,Aug 24 2008
11:22 PM

It seems to me that the commentating team of Allen and Brundle would have us belive that just because an incident is being investigated that action will invariably be taken.  I would bet my house that if Hamilton had been the one involved we would have spent the rest of the race hearing why Hamilton should not be held responsible for his team's 'error'.

blimey, what a surpirse <dunce>

if it had been hammy, he would of at least received a 10 second grid penalty.

more likley he would have recevied a 10 min stop go, had all his assets frozen and deported to siberia.


agreed dazzer

this is an appaling thread but the contributions from certain posters don't suprise me

he shouldn't have been punished for a team mistake??

Hold on, hold on! It was the Ferrari fans that were claiming it was a TEAM sport back when Rubens used to move over for Scumi

So, should the team be held accountable for things like this??? All of sudden, it isn't a team sport? It's just the driver?!

stick that in your italiano hash pipe and smoke it
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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RJHSaints,Aug 24 2008
02:14 PM
I vote No, as the incident wasn't really his fault and he slowed and got as far out of the way of Sutil as he could.

I suppose according to the letter of the law he should but I think a more reasonable punishment would be to fine Ferrari or deduct them constructor points.

I agree, it wasn't really Massa's fault and he backed off. The fault was with the team, they are responsible for releasing him.
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Red Andy
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dazzerjp,Aug 24 2008
03:24 PM
if it had been hammy, he would of at least received a 10 second grid penalty.

more likley he would have recevied a 10 min stop go, had all his assets frozen and deported to siberia.

Needless paranoia. Considering the incredible rub of the green Hamilton got from the stewards for his various misdemeanours last year, such an assertion is unfounded.

In response to your (sensible) points from the other thread:

Quote:
 
The issue was an "unsafe release" in that it was dangerous and put lives at risk - namely the camerman at the end of the lane.

not whether or not either driver was impeeded.

Correct, but the issue is not interpretation of the rules - which we all agree are pretty clear - but of precedents set in previous F1 races. As PiquetFan says, previous similar incidents have gone unpunished, Massa did everything in his capacity to avoid a full-on collision and therefore made the best of a bad situation.
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dazzerjp
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Red Andy,Aug 24 2008
11:28 PM
dazzerjp,Aug 24 2008
03:24 PM
if it had been hammy, he would of at least received a 10 second grid penalty.

more likley he would have recevied a 10 min stop go, had all his assets frozen and deported to siberia.

Needless paranoia. Considering the incredible rub of the green Hamilton got from the stewards for his various misdemeanours last year, such an assertion is unfounded.

no, thats called humour.

Lets keep it civil, shall we?

The interpretation of precedent must mean that previous examples have been judged and a decision was made, meaning also an investgation took place.

This is not the case, so no precedent remains, only examples of similar situations
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RJHSaints
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I just hope Stradlin takes a step back from his hysterical rantings for a moment and considers that not all those arguing in favour of no penalty or a penalty which does not affect Massa are the same people who defended the actions of Ferrari with regards to team orders in the Schumacher era. <doh>
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Rams
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Quote:
 
Felipe Massa has been reprimanded and fined by the European Grand Prix stewards, but the Ferrari driver has kept his victory at Valencia.

Massa's victory was in doubt after the stewards said they would investigate a pitlane incident after the race.

The Brazilian nearly crashed with Force India's Adrian Sutil when joining the pitlane following his pitstop and the stewards deemed his release had been dangerous.

As a result of the incident Massa has been reprimanded and fined $10,000 dollars.

The FIA embarrass themselves again with their total lack of consistency.

Two incidents, same type of incident, same pitlane - yet two completely different outcomes.

Interestingly Karun Chandhok who was penalised in the GP2 race was doing commentary for the F1 cinema feed, is said to be furious and wants to know why he was punished. Maybe he ought to have a Ferrari sticker on his car for next time?
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dazzerjp
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Rams,Aug 24 2008
11:46 PM
Quote:
 
Felipe Massa has been reprimanded and fined by the European Grand Prix stewards, but the Ferrari driver has kept his victory at Valencia.

Massa's victory was in doubt after the stewards said they would investigate a pitlane incident after the race.

The Brazilian nearly crashed with Force India's Adrian Sutil when joining the pitlane following his pitstop and the stewards deemed his release had been dangerous.

As a result of the incident Massa has been reprimanded and fined $10,000 dollars.

The FIA embarrass themselves again with their total lack of consistency.

Two incidents, same type of incident, same pitlane - yet two completely different outcomes.

Interestingly Karun Chandhok who was penalised in the GP2 race was doing commentary for the F1 cinema feed, is said to be furious and wants to know why he was punished. Maybe he ought to have a Ferrari sticker on his car for next time?

I would like to say that the result is unbelievable, which it is.

Sadly, it completely believable.

FIA = WWF (Wrestling)
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