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Valencia Live Thread of the race
Topic Started: Aug 24 2008, 08:07 AM (1,124 Views)
Lord Tau
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Fireworks in the daylight???
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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The incident wasn't really Massa's fault BUT the team should have known better and should be penalised accordingly.

Was it just me or are Ferrari (despite win) looking shambolic. RE: Kimi's pit stop etc.
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dazzerjp
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Says it well

"Despite the apparent availably of indisputable proof that Ferrari broke the rules by releasing its driver into the path of another driver, the stewards declared that they would only release its conclusion on the incident at an unspecified time after the race was over. "

http://planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_4041173,00.html
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Lord Tau
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LOL, Massa blames Sutil in the post race conference!
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dazzerjp
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Lord Tau,Aug 24 2008
10:58 PM
LOL, Massa blames Sutil in the post race conference!

I thought I mis-heard him.

Surely that comment must influence the decision.
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RJHSaints
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I think Massa was told to say that. In any case, when he sees the video he should admit some fault on the part of the team. But while the stewards are still considering it he obviously can't say anything to admit blame.

I really hope he doesn't lose the race win as it was a flawless performance and to be frank Ferrari let him down.
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Lord Tau
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606 is a source of hilarious comments regarding the incident!
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RJHSaints
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606 is a source of hilarious comments regarding most things. <roflmao>
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Red Andy
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Regarding the Massa/Sutil incident, as far as the rules go it is something of a grey area. The regulations clearly state that unsafely releasing your car in the pit lane is prohibited, but in previous cases a penalty has only been applied if someone has been "unfairly" disadvantaged by such an unsafe release - it can hardly be said that either Massa or Sutil unduly suffered due to Ferrari releasing Felipe too early.

Also, the FIA and race stewards have set themselves a precedent in recent times that if an incident happens that is not the fault of the driver, only the team is punished even if the driver benefits. I don't think anyone would argue that the incident in the pits today was Massa's fault, rather the fault of the guy who switches the lights on the pit gantry. I would expect that Ferrari's WCC points could be deducted, if any penalty at all is applied.

However, despite the bleating of the ITV team, it is important to remember that this rule has been overlooked in the past when a Ferrari has not been involved. This is not unprecedented and it is plausible that Massa could get away with it.

And I wouldn't even classify myself in the "pro-Ferrari brigade," so let's not play that card.
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dazzerjp
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no, but we can class you in the anit-hammy league, so by proxy you counter.

The issue was an "unsafe release" in that it was dangerous and put lives at risk - namely the camerman at the end of the lane.

not whether or not either driver was impeeded
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stradlin24
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Red Andy,Aug 24 2008
03:12 PM
Regarding the Massa/Sutil incident, as far as the rules go it is something of a grey area. The regulations clearly state that unsafely releasing your car in the pit lane is prohibited, but in previous cases a penalty has only been applied if someone has been "unfairly" disadvantaged by such an unsafe release - it can hardly be said that either Massa or Sutil unduly suffered due to Ferrari releasing Felipe too early.

Also, the FIA and race stewards have set themselves a precedent in recent times that if an incident happens that is not the fault of the driver, only the team is punished even if the driver benefits. I don't think anyone would argue that the incident in the pits today was Massa's fault, rather the fault of the guy who switches the lights on the pit gantry. I would expect that Ferrari's WCC points could be deducted, if any penalty at all is applied.

However, despite the bleating of the ITV team, it is important to remember that this rule has been overlooked in the past when a Ferrari has not been involved. This is not unprecedented and it is plausible that Massa could get away with it.

And I wouldn't even classify myself in the "pro-Ferrari brigade," so let's not play that card.

But you are incredibly anti-hamilton so that message does not suprise me

reading through 606 i've been able to add another reason to dislike the scum (sorry, i mean Ferrari fans)

it should have been penalty there is no two ways about it

i watched the GP2 race yesterday and the self and same incidents took place and penalties were immediate

this a complete shambles
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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The outcome of the investigation shouldn't affect the result of the race BUT grey area or not what Ferrari did was dangerous.

Massa almost found himself in the wall and last time they did it Kimi got rear end full of Lewis.

They're just pushing it a little.
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Red Andy
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dazzerjp,Aug 24 2008
03:15 PM
The issue was an "unsafe release" in that it was dangerous and put lives at risk - namely the camerman at the end of the lane.

not whether or not either driver was impeeded

Dazzer - to avoid confusion (and repeating myself) I'll address these issues in the other thread dedicated to this subject.

As far as being "anti-Hamilton" goes, I am not a fan of Lewis but I do consider myself to be measured and balanced in my judgements of his ability and actions....feel free to disagree, but to describe me as purely "anti-Hamilton" is misleading, especially given how many times I have praised his obvious talent on these very boards.
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dazzerjp
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Red Andy,Aug 24 2008
11:22 PM
...especially given how many times I have praised his obvious talent on these very boards.

classic.
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stradlin24
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Red Andy,Aug 24 2008
03:22 PM
dazzerjp,Aug 24 2008
03:15 PM
The issue was an "unsafe release" in that it was dangerous and put lives at risk - namely the camerman at the end of the lane.

not whether or not either driver was impeeded

Dazzer - to avoid confusion (and repeating myself) I'll address these issues in the other thread dedicated to this subject.

As far as being "anti-Hamilton" goes, I am not a fan of Lewis but I do consider myself to be measured and balanced in my judgements of his ability and actions....feel free to disagree, but to describe me as purely "anti-Hamilton" is misleading, especially given how many times I have praised his obvious talent on these very boards.

so we'd suggest that in the interests of balance....

the next time ANY driver SLIGHTLY moans about traffic being a problem in a practice session that you post a thread on it??? you did it for Hamilton

you can't have your cake and eat it!

yum yum
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