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US Firm to build F1 simulator for Ferrari
Topic Started: Aug 19 2008, 09:50 PM (314 Views)
Steelstallions
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http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/19082008/13/...or-ferrari.html

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Ferrari has charged an American company with the task of engineering the best driver simulator in Formula One.

With the Italian team's arch rivals McLaren believed to currently possess the best simulator, it emerges that the New York-based firm Moog is working on building a "next-generation" machine to be installed at Maranello.

Moog is involved in the aerospace and defence industries, making aircraft, spacecraft, military weapon and missile controls.

"The dynamic driving simulator is a new step for us in developing virtual tests that give drivers the true feel of a real environment and direct feedback on their actions," Ferrari's head of car performance Marco Fainello confirmed.

Moog also confirmed the news.

Simulators are of growing importance to F1 teams, with Ferrari revealing on Tuesday that it used carmaker partner Fiat's Centro Ricerche facility to prepare for the new layout at Valencia.

But reigning World Champion Kimi Raikkonen is not a fan of using simulators to prepare for unfamiliar circuits.

"To be honest, that's something I don't like," the Finn admitted. "I've always been able to get to know a new race track very fast."


If you don't drive the F1 car on the track how good can a simulator be? That said isnt that screen they drop in front of the car when its in the pits with driver still at the wheel after each practice lap and pole position lap just a video of the lap they have just done?
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AndyW76
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I think it is more to do with software abilities of US companies than anything else.

Simulation of cars and tracks is important because it allow teams to test developments and theories without going down blind alleys.
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Red Andy
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Yes, a simulation is much cheaper than the real thing. It's why teams increasingly use CFD simulations rather than wind tunnels for the initial development of aerodynamic parts.
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AndyW76
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Red Andy,Aug 20 2008
11:16 AM
Yes, a simulation is much cheaper than the real thing. It's why teams increasingly use CFD simulations rather than wind tunnels for the initial development of aerodynamic parts.

As I understand it, CFD is pretty advanced now and the programs are quite expensive but I guess it is better than manufacturing countless models based on theory. One of the problems with a wind tunnel is that it is difficult to simulate a car in motion or in traffic.
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Brave_Lee_Flea
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AndyW76,Aug 20 2008
11:20 AM
Red Andy,Aug 20 2008
11:16 AM
Yes, a simulation is much cheaper than the real thing. It's why teams increasingly use CFD simulations rather than wind tunnels for the initial development of aerodynamic parts.

As I understand it, CFD is pretty advanced now and the programs are quite expensive but I guess it is better than manufacturing countless models based on theory. One of the problems with a wind tunnel is that it is difficult to simulate a car in motion or in traffic.

Which is all true. However a CFD computer is usually a massively parallel supercomputer and even then they don't work in real time.

What we are talking about here is a "driving simulator" and I would be incredibly surprised if these were able to test theoretical new parts with anything like the same degree of accuracy as a CFD computer, if at all.

I think they are more for driver familiarisation of circuits, perhaps of the car and for testing different strategies and so on.
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AndyW76
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Petra Lead,Aug 20 2008
12:53 PM
AndyW76,Aug 20 2008
11:20 AM
Red Andy,Aug 20 2008
11:16 AM
Yes, a simulation is much cheaper than the real thing. It's why teams increasingly use CFD simulations rather than wind tunnels for the initial development of aerodynamic parts.

As I understand it, CFD is pretty advanced now and the programs are quite expensive but I guess it is better than manufacturing countless models based on theory. One of the problems with a wind tunnel is that it is difficult to simulate a car in motion or in traffic.

Which is all true. However a CFD computer is usually a massively parallel supercomputer and even then they don't work in real time.

What we are talking about here is a "driving simulator" and I would be incredibly surprised if these were able to test theoretical new parts with anything like the same degree of accuracy as a CFD computer, if at all.

I think they are more for driver familiarisation of circuits, perhaps of the car and for testing different strategies and so on.

<think>

Unless they incorporate cfd modeling into the simulator, though I suspect that we are getting into the relms of mega-bucks.
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SaveOurSilverstone
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can they not just get a playstation??

reminds me of the americans spending millions on trying to make a pen that worked in space... <doh>





the russians, well they used a pencil. <thumbsup>
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Brave_Lee_Flea
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AndyW76,Aug 20 2008
12:59 PM

Unless they incorporate cfd modeling into the simulator, though I suspect that we are getting into the relms of mega-bucks.

To do that accurately I suspect we are getting into the realms of science fiction ... I just don't think there are any computers out the at the moment which could do it accurately in real time.

Just my opinion mind, nothing to substantiate it so I could be wrong. I was wrong once, a long time ago, but that turned out to be a mistake.
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Brave_Lee_Flea
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SaveOurSilverstone,Aug 20 2008
01:00 PM
can they not just get a playstation??

reminds me of the americans spending millions on trying to make a pen that worked in space... <doh>

the russians, well they used a pencil. <thumbsup>

lol, that's a delightful story. I so hope it is true.
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AndyW76
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Petra Lead,Aug 20 2008
01:05 PM
SaveOurSilverstone,Aug 20 2008
01:00 PM
can they not just get a playstation??

reminds me of the americans spending millions on trying to make a pen that worked in space...  <doh>

the russians, well they used a pencil.  <thumbsup>

lol, that's a delightful story. I so hope it is true.

The best one is when the americans were investing in high speed trains and they asked UK manufacturers how we tested against hitting birds. Quite simple, we fired frozen chickens at the train's windscreen. When the americans tried this, the chicken not only penetrated the windscreen, but also the driver's cabin door and several carriages. When queried about what we did if this happened, we replied, "well you are supposed to defrost the chicken first". <roflmao>

I suspect that it is a bit of an urban legend, but still funny.
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Norbert
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AndyW76,Aug 20 2008
02:16 PM
The best one is when the americans were investing in high speed trains and they asked UK manufacturers how we tested against hitting birds. Quite simple, we fired frozen chickens at the train's windscreen. When the americans tried this, the chicken not only penetrated the windscreen, but also the driver's cabin door and several carriages. When queried about what we did if this happened, we replied, "well you are supposed to defrost the chicken first". <roflmao>

I suspect that it is a bit of an urban legend, but still funny.

Well, I've heard the chicken canon story regarding testing jet engines, and aircraft as well, against bird strikes. The frozen bit rings a bell too....
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Norbert
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Petra Lead,Aug 20 2008
01:53 PM
Which is all true. However a CFD computer is usually a massively parallel supercomputer and even then they don't work in real time.

I would be willing to bet that an IBM Blue Gene/L would be able to quite happily simulate driving around an F1 track, something to do with having 65536 P4 processors and several Terabytes of RAM. Let's not forget that the majority of the practice laps put in over the weekend are done on the test rig back at HQ after the cars have fed back the exact layout of the track via the telemetry....
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AndyW76
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Norbert,Aug 20 2008
02:45 PM
Petra Lead,Aug 20 2008
01:53 PM
Which is all true. However a CFD computer is usually a massively parallel supercomputer and even then they don't work in real time.

I would be willing to bet that an IBM Blue Gene/L would be able to quite happily simulate driving around an F1 track, something to do with having 65536 P4 processors and several Terabytes of RAM. Let's not forget that the majority of the practice laps put in over the weekend are done on the test rig back at HQ after the cars have fed back the exact layout of the track via the telemetry....

coupled with cad and FEA developed models of the cars, I bet we aren't far off virtual F1.
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