Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to The Pit Lane. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
2008 Fastest Race Laps; Interesting...
Topic Started: Aug 19 2008, 11:17 AM (942 Views)
RJHSaints
Member Avatar
Chief Engineer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Rams,Aug 19 2008
08:36 PM
RJHSaints,Aug 19 2008
07:51 PM
'In a class of his own'?

The only reason Raikkonen is so much faster than others (in terms of fastest laps) is because he is pushing to show off his speed in the late part of the race where the track is in optimum condition, having cocked up the early part due to qualifying and a bad start, while everyone else is basically settled for their position and trying to bring the car home.

Hardly, the data shows that the majority of his fastest laps came earlier on in the race:

Spanish GP - Lap 46
Turkish GP - Lap 20
Monaco GP - Lap 74
Canada GP - Lap 14
French GP - Lap 16
British GP - Lap 18
Hungarian GP - Lap 61

The Monaco GP can be explained because the track was drying out. Only the Hungarian fastest lap came close to being at the end of a race.

Well, four came in the first half of the race and three in the second half. In any case, it still doesn't really counter my main point - were Heidfeld and Kovalainen in a class of their own when they set the fastest race laps on the circuits they did?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rams
Chief Engineer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
RJHSaints,Aug 20 2008
03:08 PM
Rams,Aug 19 2008
08:36 PM
RJHSaints,Aug 19 2008
07:51 PM
'In a class of his own'?

The only reason Raikkonen is so much faster than others (in terms of fastest laps) is because he is pushing to show off his speed in the late part of the race where the track is in optimum condition, having cocked up the early part due to qualifying and a bad start, while everyone else is basically settled for their position and trying to bring the car home.

Hardly, the data shows that the majority of his fastest laps came earlier on in the race:

Spanish GP - Lap 46
Turkish GP - Lap 20
Monaco GP - Lap 74
Canada GP - Lap 14
French GP - Lap 16
British GP - Lap 18
Hungarian GP - Lap 61

The Monaco GP can be explained because the track was drying out. Only the Hungarian fastest lap came close to being at the end of a race.

Well, four came in the first half of the race and three in the second half. In any case, it still doesn't really counter my main point - were Heidfeld and Kovalainen in a class of their own when they set the fastest race laps on the circuits they did?

In terms of pace in clear air - yes. Setting the fastest lap doesn't happen by accident. I wonder if Massa went on to win the championship without setting a fastest lap, would he be the first to do so?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
RJHSaints
Member Avatar
Chief Engineer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Well he might well be, but that wouldn't diminish the achievement, if he did. Winning a championship is about being fast over 1,000+ laps, not just a select few. Course, having been screwed at Hungary by an incident that had little to do with him, he will now have to be considered the underdog of the three main contenders, so it may well not happen anyway. Incidentally, Lewis is on for a 'fastest lapless' WDC too.

Also, setting the fastest race lap can very much happen by 'accident' (i.e. not a reflection of true pace); drivers further up the field will be trying to conserve their tyres and engine, while Kimi and Heikki have, in many races, had relatively little to lose, hence they could turn the wick up and abuse their tyres for one uber-lap.

To make a direct comparison - Kovalainen has two more fastest laps than Hamilton. Does that make him the quicker McLaren driver?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Bear
Member Avatar
Chief Engineer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
AndyW76,Aug 20 2008
12:03 PM
Alien_SAP_Fiend,Aug 20 2008
11:46 AM
AndyW76,Aug 20 2008
11:07 AM
I mean, Alonso beat the great Michael Schumacher, something kimi has never done. Surely that makes Alonso the best. And Massa has shown Kimi the way more than once this year.

And Kimi beat Alonso, Massa and Lewis last year.

So what is your point?

If we are being pedantic, Alonso beat kimi in 2005 and Lewis beat Alonso last, so what is your point?

My example a demonstration on how results can be twisted. I wasn't actually announcing Alonso as the best. The fact is that, although Kimi is proven to be fast, there are guys out there who are as good as him and to believe that they are not is to have may be a little too much faith in Kimi and little respect for the opposition.

Nah. Alonso was only beaten by the FIA and Macca last year.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Red Andy
Member Avatar

Moderator
And himself, of course - after the Brazilian GP last year, he acknowledged that the only thing he could blame for losing the title was his mistake in Fuji.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rob
Member Avatar

Admin
Red Andy,Aug 20 2008
11:20 AM
And himself, of course - after the Brazilian GP last year, he acknowledged that the only thing he could blame for losing the title was his mistake in Fuji.

And Hungary, if he had just pulled right out of the pits Alonso would have been the 07 WDC (probably).
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
AndyW76
Member Avatar
Team Boss
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Bear,Aug 20 2008
03:55 PM
AndyW76,Aug 20 2008
12:03 PM
Alien_SAP_Fiend,Aug 20 2008
11:46 AM
AndyW76,Aug 20 2008
11:07 AM
I mean, Alonso beat the great Michael Schumacher, something kimi has never done. Surely that makes Alonso the best. And Massa has shown Kimi the way more than once this year.

And Kimi beat Alonso, Massa and Lewis last year.

So what is your point?

If we are being pedantic, Alonso beat kimi in 2005 and Lewis beat Alonso last, so what is your point?

My example a demonstration on how results can be twisted. I wasn't actually announcing Alonso as the best. The fact is that, although Kimi is proven to be fast, there are guys out there who are as good as him and to believe that they are not is to have may be a little too much faith in Kimi and little respect for the opposition.

Nah. Alonso was only beaten by the FIA and Macca last year.

Let's drop the conspiracy theories please. It makes you look paranoid.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rob
Member Avatar

Admin
AndyW76,Aug 20 2008
12:13 PM
Bear,Aug 20 2008
03:55 PM
AndyW76,Aug 20 2008
12:03 PM
Alien_SAP_Fiend,Aug 20 2008
11:46 AM
AndyW76,Aug 20 2008
11:07 AM
I mean, Alonso beat the great Michael Schumacher, something kimi has never done. Surely that makes Alonso the best. And Massa has shown Kimi the way more than once this year.

And Kimi beat Alonso, Massa and Lewis last year.

So what is your point?

If we are being pedantic, Alonso beat kimi in 2005 and Lewis beat Alonso last, so what is your point?

My example a demonstration on how results can be twisted. I wasn't actually announcing Alonso as the best. The fact is that, although Kimi is proven to be fast, there are guys out there who are as good as him and to believe that they are not is to have may be a little too much faith in Kimi and little respect for the opposition.

Nah. Alonso was only beaten by the FIA and Macca last year.

Let's drop the conspiracy theories please. It makes you look paranoid.

Not nearly as much as the tin foil hat does though... <LOL>

<sarcasm>
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rams
Chief Engineer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
RJHSaints,Aug 20 2008
04:46 PM
To make a direct comparison - Kovalainen has two more fastest laps than Hamilton. Does that make him the quicker McLaren driver?

But if you look at which McLaren driver has set the faster race lap, it's 7-4 to Hamilton which I'd say actually reflects their race pace. In the Ferrari case, Kimi totally dominates that statistic.

I agree it's not just about who sets the fastest lap, with the current regulations it's more about who makes the least mistakes and Kimi is making a lot of them at the minute.

But in clear air, on race day, he is still the faster race driver overall.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Red Andy
Member Avatar

Moderator
But what does that matter if you can't ever find clear air on race day, because you screwed up in qualifying and ended up starting behind a bunch of cars that should be slower than yours? Getting a good result in F1 is about getting it right for the entire weekend. Setting fastest lap earns you nothing more than bragging rights, and rightly so.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rams
Chief Engineer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
The point is that speed is not holding Kimi back, only his mistakes. If he can recapture his form from the last 5 years he should be able to win the title.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Red Andy
Member Avatar

Moderator
His form from the last five years having been inconsistent, just like this one. Kimi has always been fast but made too many mistakes, which is why despite being a world-class driver he didn't win a title until last year.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rams
Chief Engineer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Red Andy,Aug 21 2008
10:51 AM
His form from the last five years having been inconsistent, just like this one. Kimi has always been fast but made too many mistakes, which is why despite being a world-class driver he didn't win a title until last year.

Kimi's form was superb between 2003-2006, he actually made very few mistakes in those seasons.

Only last season could you say he was inconsistent, but in the end he got better and won the title. I think the same will happen this season.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Alien_SAP_Fiend
Member Avatar
Chief Engineer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
What this proves is that Kimi struggles to get his tyres working in qualifying, compared to Lewis and Massa. Once he's in the groove, so to speak, he's faster than anybody else. Unfortunately, today's cars are so reliant on aero that it's almost impossible to get past a slower car, as we saw last race, when Alonso held him up until the second pit stop.

This is why he has to rely on qualifying heavy and banging in fast laps while his lighter opponents are pitting (and emerging in traffic). This tactic does not always work, especially in wet races and has been taken by his detractors as a loss of form or lack of will or whatever, but the fact that he does get so many fastest laps, usually around the time that others are pitting, does indicate that he is trying to win races, it's just that he's accepted the fact that his strength lies in race pace, not qualifying and he's trying to win races that way. What is wrong with that? Are the only 'good' drivers the ones who get pole? Don't forget that Chris Dyer was Schumi's race engineer and would most probably be advising Kimi to employ this tactic. Has he lost form, too?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
pedal power
Member Avatar
Chief Engineer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
For all the talk of Kimi losing it this season, off his pace, doesn’t seem committed blah blah blah just remember one thing, for all these short comings he is still second in the championship and behind Lewis by 5 points.

Taking into account the above, it’s says more about his rivals than him.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Formula 1 · Next Topic »
Add Reply