| Welcome to The Pit Lane. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Four-way title fight? | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: May 25 2008, 06:31 PM (1,049 Views) | |
| Brave_Lee_Flea | May 26 2008, 05:33 PM Post #16 |
![]()
Chief Engineer
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Several points: 1) I am not one of MS's fan boys. Rather the opposite in fact. 2) I am not reacting to a single race or incident; I am reacting to Kimi's entire (thus far) stint at Ferrari. 3) Despite having had a drive thru penalty yesterday he was clearly not running at the same pace as Massa. You will note that this happened before he was fuelled long to the end of the race and thus before Ferrari's gamble. I maintain that we have not seen the best of Kimi since he has been at Ferrari. I said so before the start of the season and also said that that having had a season to settle in I hoped he would be better this year than last. So while you are digging around through old posts to show how clever you are you might keep an eye out for those. |
![]() |
|
| Brave_Lee_Flea | May 26 2008, 05:36 PM Post #17 |
![]()
Chief Engineer
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I assume you cannot be referring to me as, and I quote myself here :
I am consistent, considered and take a medium-to-long term view when judging drivers. |
![]() |
|
| Brave_Lee_Flea | May 26 2008, 05:43 PM Post #18 |
![]()
Chief Engineer
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
That's true; the failure I am referring to is one of strategy not tactics. Choosing one driver over the other based on their position in the championship is a short-term view; it is tactics. By hiring two drivers capable of taking points from each other they are harming their own title chances; bad strategy. And talking of tactics what a strange decision yesterday to take the same gamble with both drivers...... I am sure that in the days of Ross and MS Ferrari would have come up with something better than they did yesterday. |
![]() |
|
| Red Andy | May 26 2008, 06:03 PM Post #19 |
![]()
|
No, it's a general perception of those who tend to rate Kimi and, conversely, regard Massa as being a poor driver. I'm not particularly a fan of Massa's (he is in a Ferrari, after all), but I feel he gets extremely unfair treatment from an awful lot of people in terms of their assessment of his ability. Thus in a roundabout way I do want to see him do well, just to prove his detractors wrong; you couldn't really call me a fan, though. In response to your other point, I suppose it is possible that Ferrari, like a lot of people, were caught out by exactly how fast Massa is. They could have hired Massa with it in mind that he would play a supporting role to Raikkonen even if that wasn't specified in the contract (Massa had hardly set the world alight during his Sauber years), only to be surprised by how well he performed and how comfortable he felt in the team. Thus it might not be a case of "bad strategy" as much as it is a case of bad judgement regarding driver ability. |
![]() |
|
| Brave_Lee_Flea | May 26 2008, 08:16 PM Post #20 |
![]()
Chief Engineer
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I was one who expected Kimi to blow Massa away. That he hasn't either tells me that Massa is better than I had thought, or that Kimi is not as good. Or both. I am slowly coming round to the third way of thinking though I have felt for some time that Kimi's driving is lacking the panache that characterised his best years at McLaren. If it isn't motivation that is lacking then what is it? It may be that you feel he isn't lacking anything but I just don't see the same driver as I remember. Maybe he has matured and has started to play a more considered game. It is possible I suppose but it doesn't fit in with what I know about Kimi's personality; he fancies himself a latter day James Hunt. Playing the percentage game just doesn't fit in with that. And yes, I can see that it may not have been poor strategy so much as Massa maturing better than expected. |
![]() |
|
| Rams | May 26 2008, 08:18 PM Post #21 |
|
Chief Engineer
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I think Kimi's been poor all season. He doesn't look motivated or like he cares. Been watching some races from 2003 recently, some of the things he did in the McLaren were incredible but his level seems to have dropped off. He has higher standards than most, that's why people are harder on him. |
![]() |
|
| John | May 26 2008, 08:26 PM Post #22 |
|
Team Boss
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Kimi always seemed to be only interested in becoming a single WDC, then when he did it it looked like he was motivated to win more than one title... suddenly he looks like he would not care if he retired tomorrow.... I do hope I am proved wrong and besides it is still very early in the season to right him off. |
![]() |
|
| Alien_SAP_Fiend | May 26 2008, 08:35 PM Post #23 |
![]()
Chief Engineer
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I wasn't referring to you, Petra. More a reaction to the instant Kimi bashing that erupts the moment he has a bad race - normally from the MS supporters who think that MS would be doing a better job than Kimi if he'd stayed. He had a crap race yesterday, no doubt about it. Part of it was to do with the trouble on the grid and a team decision gone wrong and part of it to do with the fact that he was having an off day. Lots of people had accidents, he just happened to have one of his when Sutil was in front of him and unfortunately took him off. He wasn't following dangerously close or trying to overtake, he locked his brakes on a damp patch, lost control of the car and rammed into the back of Sutil - thereby gaining no points and losing the WDC lead. Why do people think that he should be punished even more? Face it guys, MICHAEL SCHUMACHER HAS RETIRED. Got that? He's been replaced by somebody else. Deal with it and stop taking out your frustrations on his replacement. |
![]() |
|
| John | May 26 2008, 08:38 PM Post #24 |
|
Team Boss
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
When the feck did that happen....
|
![]() |
|
| RJHSaints | May 26 2008, 08:45 PM Post #25 |
![]()
Chief Engineer
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Kimi has never looked particularly motivated to me, but he must be or else he'd never have made it to where he is now. That said, he definitely gives the impression that he's a 'get in, drive, get out, go home' guy instead of a really committed team player, like Alonso (taking out of consideration his antics at McLaren last year which were probably only half his fault) |
![]() |
|
| Alien_SAP_Fiend | May 26 2008, 08:49 PM Post #26 |
![]()
Chief Engineer
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Go and have a look at the video highlights on ITV.com There's a bit where they show the Kimi/Sutil incident "Raikkonnen cruelly hits Sutils and then escapes penalty" (can't think who they might be rooting for). Does it look like Sutil's about to cut the Chicane? If not, then they were both incredibly unlucky, as the contact occurred just before the first curve! |
![]() |
|
| RJHSaints | May 26 2008, 08:51 PM Post #27 |
![]()
Chief Engineer
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I don't think you should read much into that. 'Cruelly' could mean 'cruel' in the sense that Sutil was on for an unbeliveable result until he got hit, rather than Raikkonen 'cruelly' intended to take him out. |
![]() |
|
| Alien_SAP_Fiend | May 26 2008, 08:53 PM Post #28 |
![]()
Chief Engineer
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
'unfortunately' would have been a better word, less loaded, dotchathink? Especially when followed up by 'escapes penalty'. |
![]() |
|
| RJHSaints | May 26 2008, 08:54 PM Post #29 |
![]()
Chief Engineer
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I agree, but then I don't write these things.
|
![]() |
|
| Alien_SAP_Fiend | May 26 2008, 08:57 PM Post #30 |
![]()
Chief Engineer
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
No, you are intelligent. |
![]() |
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Formula 1 · Next Topic » |






![]](http://z6.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)







8:32 AM Jul 11