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How far can Piquet go in the race?
Topic Started: May 24 2008, 07:37 PM (675 Views)
TheCompleteGuitarist
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RJHSaints,May 25 2008
03:53 PM
TheCompleteGuitarist,May 25 2008
02:11 PM
safc_fan89,May 25 2008
09:10 AM
Hamilton was given a championship-winning car in his debut season. You can't possibly try and compare the two.

Piquet has perhaps the 6th best car, maybe even 7th best. When you're a rookie, the last thing you need is a car that is unpredictable and handles like a dog. Hence why I think he's been unlucky. Renault should have provided him (and Alonso of course) with a good car, but they haven't. I daresay if they had someone else other than Alonso in the first car now, they wouldn't be making the top 10 at all.

I think considerring they had the same team mate you can quite easily make a comparison. Especially considering lewis beat alonso.

lets not forget that piquet spent all last year testing the renault and alonso did not.

World Champions can get the best out of bad cars, rookies generally can't.

If Hamilton had been in this year's Renault last year, he would probably have struggled somewhat relative to Alonso too.

I'd have to say that is your opinion and not really a fact, but your certainly entitled to it.

Sure rookies rarely do their best in their first year. Rosberg was a good example of that, but Piquet's had plenty of time in that car, possibly even partially responisble for it's development, and he's not knew to racing.

But he's not just a little way behind Alonso most of the time, he embarrasingly far from him and also very embarrasing in the races too. Kova never drove that badly in his rookie year.

And the bad car thing is relative, they are all F1 cars.

Hamilton wasn't even the least bit overshadowed Alonso let alone humiliated by him other than their offstage handbags at dawn routine.

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Red Andy
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Remember that the Renault team is essentially built around Alonso. That was not the case at McLaren. Plus Alonso had to share all his setup data with Hamilton at McLaren, whereas I doubt Piquet is given such assistance.
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safc_fan89
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Piquet tested LAST YEAR'S CAR. It's pretty clear that you don't rate him, but your argument isn't helped by saying stuff which is just rubbish, frankly.

Hamilton had a perfect car that should have won the title. This year's Renault will finish 5th or 6th in the constructors' championship. There's a slight difference. If you can't see that, watch a sport that requires a tad less thought.
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RJHSaints
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What those guys said.

Plus the fact that, in GP2, which is about as egalitarian a series as there is at the upper levels of motorsport, Piquet and Hamilton were closely matched.

It's too early to say yet whether Piquet will be any good in F1, but Rosberg was rubbish compared to Webber in his first season and has done OK for himself at Williams.
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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safc_fan89,May 25 2008
05:01 PM
Piquet tested LAST YEAR'S CAR. It's pretty clear that you don't rate him, but your argument isn't helped by saying stuff which is just rubbish, frankly.

It's not that I don't rate him, I have little regard for that, though there is not much to rate as far as his F1 career is concerned.

He's made an immense amount of arrogant statements and delivered nothing. There are a few drivers before him who forum members, not just this one, ripped into on faintest of arguements that they might have a good race next time out and been jeered as arrogant and selfish and who weren't in the least bit hyping themselves up.

I never said that Piquet should be winning races in a car that is far from capable of such.I just believe he should however be much closer to his team mate than he is.

As for NP testing last years car I was under the impression that there was only one team that designed its car from scratch and that wasn't Renault
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GV Legend
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On the piquet hamilton comparisions i would have expectd it to be easier for a rookie to get the best out of a very good car, than for a rookie to get the best out of a car that is barely adequate.
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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GV Legend,May 25 2008
07:40 PM
On the piquet hamilton comparisions i would have expectd it to be easier for a rookie to get the best out of a very good car, than for a rookie to get the best out of a car that is barely adequate.

Barely adequate? Is he driving the 2007 Honda? Maybe Renault stole the wrong documents from Honda.

Probably when Nick Fry met with Coughlan he handed him the designs and begged for some advice, Coughlan left them lying on his desk and in sneaked Renaults mole with his spy camera, snap snap snap.

Don't get me wrong, but I doubt Alonso could have regularly managed to qualify that barely adequate car in the top ten every race, but he's doing so with his current barely adequate car?

That's a very selective judgement you all have.
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GV Legend
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compared to the renault of 2005 and 2006 and compared to the teams at the front this years car is barely adequate.

I would say the 2007 honda was completely woeful and one of the worst in recent memory.

tell me what does my original post have to do with honda anyway i was simply stating that it must be easier to drive a car that you can be completely comfotable in and have faith that it is going to do what you want, than to have a car that is obviously not up to scratch in your rookie season.
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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My point was that it can't be that inadequate as Alonso is putting it regularly into the top ten, he wouldn't have managed that in last years Honda.
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Red Andy
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But it's still inadequate compared to last year's McLaren.
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TheCompleteGuitarist,May 25 2008
08:17 PM
My point was that it can't be that inadequate as Alonso is putting it regularly into the top ten, he wouldn't have managed that in last years Honda.

but last years honda wasnt just inadequate it was much worse than that, and if alonso and piquet were in last years honda i would expect alonso to be very far ahead, however if they were both i last years macca i think the gap would be much smaller - my point being hamilton had a much smoother introduction to F1 than piquet so its reasonable that he performed better.

That doesnt nessecarily mean that he would have done much better with this years renault than piquet is doing.
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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Red Andy,May 25 2008
08:18 PM
But it's still inadequate compared to last year's McLaren.

for sure, but piquet didn't enjoy that luxury, so he's got no comparison, he's barely scraping past FI most of the time while FA is fighting for points.

This is the best F1car he's driven. And it's NOT THAT BAD. Webber and Alonso both made the Minardi look good.

Is he only to be judged on skill once he's in a Ferrari or a Mclaren.
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RJHSaints
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TheCompleteGuitarist,May 25 2008
08:23 PM
This is the best F1car he's driven. And it's NOT THAT BAD. Webber and Alonso both made the Minardi look good.

That's because they were against Alex Yoong and Tarso Marques. I'm sure Piquet would look reasonably good against those guys.

In any case, the point is not that Piquet is necessarily as good as Hamilton, but that the two situations are completely incomparable, as has been pointed out. So we should at least give Piquet more than 6 races to prove himself, bearing in mind that he has shown in flashes what he can do. His problem has been putting performances together in races, but that is a common problem for rookies.
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GV Legend
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TheCompleteGuitarist,May 25 2008
08:23 PM
Red Andy,May 25 2008
08:18 PM
But it's still inadequate compared to last year's McLaren.

for sure, but piquet didn't enjoy that luxury, so he's got no comparison, he's barely scraping past FI most of the time while FA is fighting for points.

This is the best F1car he's driven. And it's NOT THAT BAD. Webber and Alonso both made the Minardi look good.

Is he only to be judged on skill once he's in a Ferrari or a Mclaren.

But ur not just judging him on the car hes driving but also the team mate he has, and as chris and myself have said to expect him to be able to race a difficult car anywhere close to a double world champion is expecting too much.
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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crap car or not, he shouldn't be SO FAR behind his (illustrious) team mate. Hamilton's car didn't give him an edge over Alonso. (well as far as I am concerned, it's my opinion after all).

And I am basing my judegement of him on his preseason comments.
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