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Brawn: Customer cars good for F1
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Topic Started: May 12 2008, 08:31 PM (687 Views)
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AndyW76
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May 13 2008, 11:17 AM
Post #16
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- TheCompleteGuitarist,May 13 2008
- 11:13 AM
How about every entry gets a free 2007 Honda chassis, that would be encouraging, yes?
You can't polish a turd.
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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May 13 2008, 11:18 AM
Post #17
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- AndyW76,May 13 2008
- 11:17 AM
- TheCompleteGuitarist,May 13 2008
- 11:13 AM
How about every entry gets a free 2007 Honda chassis, that would be encouraging, yes?
You can't polish a turd.
Try telling that to Mcdonalds
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sportsman
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May 13 2008, 12:14 PM
Post #18
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- AndyW76,May 13 2008
- 11:07 AM
My opinion is that customer cars should be allowed but in a very limited sense. The chassis should be a design that is over a year old but modified to meet existing rules. This is on the theory that most new cars are faster than old cars (unless you are Honda). In addition, there could be a chassis manufacture that is completely unconnected to existing F1 teams, like March etc. who builts a generic, off the shelf, chassis. This option should be limited to teams that are in their first 2-3 years of F1 as a way of allowing a cheap way of entering.
Actually Andy this is very similiar to how my thoughts on customer cars. I would never be in favour of anyone buying a current or even one year old F1 car, having it delivered by transporter, and only neding fuel and fluids to race. Customer cars should never be existing F1 cars built by other teams. However I think that you should be able to buy all of the neccessary parts, tubs, suspension, brakes, engines and gearboxes from specialist suppliers and asssemble your own car. Tubs you could buy from Dallara. Engines. Cosworth, Judd, Hart and in this case any of the current F1 engine manufacturers. Gearboxes. Hewland is the first one that springs to mind. Aero you could develop yourself, you dont need your own expensive wind tunnel, you rent wind tunnel time as you needed it. This is a radical step but it is a way of reducing the enoumous cost existing at present to any potential new F1 teams. Whether or not the result is truly F1 is a moot point. However unless something radical is done, F1 will sink under the present crippling costs.
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AndyW76
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May 13 2008, 12:35 PM
Post #19
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I think the selling components idea is probably the most practical option. Most f1 cost come from R&D and if a team can forgo them costs but still assemble their own car, without the need for costly manufacturing equipment, then it could be a cost effective route into F1.
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sportsman
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May 13 2008, 01:06 PM
Post #20
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- AndyW76,May 13 2008
- 12:35 PM
I think the selling components idea is probably the most practical option. Most f1 cost come from R&D and if a team can forgo them costs but still assemble their own car, without the need for costly manufacturing equipment, then it could be a cost effective route into F1.
Practical being the most important word. Wonder if the FIA'S dictionary includes such words, along with common sense. Somehow doubt it.
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u4coffee
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May 13 2008, 01:32 PM
Post #21
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- sportsman,May 13 2008
- 01:14 PM
- AndyW76,May 13 2008
- 11:07 AM
My opinion is that customer cars should be allowed but in a very limited sense. The chassis should be a design that is over a year old but modified to meet existing rules. This is on the theory that most new cars are faster than old cars (unless you are Honda). In addition, there could be a chassis manufacture that is completely unconnected to existing F1 teams, like March etc. who builts a generic, off the shelf, chassis. This option should be limited to teams that are in their first 2-3 years of F1 as a way of allowing a cheap way of entering.
Actually Andy this is very similiar to how my thoughts on customer cars. I would never be in favour of anyone buying a current or even one year old F1 car, having it delivered by transporter, and only neding fuel and fluids to race. Customer cars should never be existing F1 cars built by other teams. However I think that you should be able to buy all of the neccessary parts, tubs, suspension, brakes, engines and gearboxes from specialist suppliers and asssemble your own car. Tubs you could buy from Dallara. Engines. Cosworth, Judd, Hart and in this case any of the current F1 engine manufacturers. Gearboxes. Hewland is the first one that springs to mind. Aero you could develop yourself, you dont need your own expensive wind tunnel, you rent wind tunnel time as you needed it. This is a radical step but it is a way of reducing the enoumous cost existing at present to any potential new F1 teams. Whether or not the result is truly F1 is a moot point. However unless something radical is done, F1 will sink under the present crippling costs.
Halfords F1?
I think thats the way to go... If F1 was to go the customer road
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sportsman
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May 13 2008, 01:46 PM
Post #22
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You would also need a Haynes manual.Do Halfords sell F1 tubs?
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u4coffee
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May 13 2008, 02:01 PM
Post #23
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- sportsman,May 13 2008
- 02:46 PM
You would also need a Haynes manual.Do Halfords sell F1 tubs?
About as many as there are F1 Haynes manuals
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John
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May 13 2008, 02:01 PM
Post #24
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- sportsman,May 13 2008
- 02:46 PM
You would also need a Haynes manual....
I saw in WH Smiths a Haynes manual for both the Avro Lancaster and the Spitfire...
so maybe the F1 Manual is on the way
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u4coffee
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May 13 2008, 02:08 PM
Post #25
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- John,May 13 2008
- 03:01 PM
- sportsman,May 13 2008
- 02:46 PM
You would also need a Haynes manual....
 I saw in WH Smiths a Haynes manual for both the Avro Lancaster and the Spitfire... so maybe the F1 Manual is on the way
It'll probably be 780 pages
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FlutterBy
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May 13 2008, 05:18 PM
Post #26
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........but on DVD

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Red Andy
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May 13 2008, 07:36 PM
Post #27
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- sportsman,May 13 2008
- 02:06 PM
- AndyW76,May 13 2008
- 12:35 PM
I think the selling components idea is probably the most practical option. Most f1 cost come from R&D and if a team can forgo them costs but still assemble their own car, without the need for costly manufacturing equipment, then it could be a cost effective route into F1.
Practical being the most important word. Wonder if the FIA'S dictionary includes such words, along with common sense. Somehow doubt it.
"Common sense" got torn out of the FIA dictionary as it was on the same page as "Conflict of interest."
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Craze_b0i
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May 13 2008, 09:23 PM
Post #28
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- Quote:
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I would never be in favour of anyone buying a current or even one year old F1 car, having it delivered by transporter, and only neding fuel and fluids to race. Customer cars should never be existing F1 cars built by other teams. However I think that you should be able to buy all of the neccessary parts, tubs, suspension, brakes, engines and gearboxes from specialist suppliers and asssemble your own car. Tubs you could buy from Dallara. Engines. Cosworth, Judd, Hart and in this case any of the current F1 engine manufacturers. Gearboxes. Hewland is the first one that springs to mind. Aero you could develop yourself, you dont need your own expensive wind tunnel, you rent wind tunnel time as you needed it. This is a radical step but it is a way of reducing the enoumous cost existing at present to any potential new F1 teams. Whether or not the result is truly F1 is a moot point. However unless something radical is done, F1 will sink under the present crippling costs.
Sportsman I agree with your ideas. For me this is a good compromise.
in my view all the 'hidden technology' inside the car can be bought off the shelf. The trackside spectator can't see inside the car. And the millions spent on R&D add nothing to the spectacle. If the teams really want their cars to be unique from one another let them focus on external features like the aerodynamics.
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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May 13 2008, 10:34 PM
Post #29
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- Craze_b0i,May 13 2008
- 09:23 PM
- Quote:
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I would never be in favour of anyone buying a current or even one year old F1 car, having it delivered by transporter, and only neding fuel and fluids to race. Customer cars should never be existing F1 cars built by other teams. However I think that you should be able to buy all of the neccessary parts, tubs, suspension, brakes, engines and gearboxes from specialist suppliers and asssemble your own car. Tubs you could buy from Dallara. Engines. Cosworth, Judd, Hart and in this case any of the current F1 engine manufacturers. Gearboxes. Hewland is the first one that springs to mind. Aero you could develop yourself, you dont need your own expensive wind tunnel, you rent wind tunnel time as you needed it. This is a radical step but it is a way of reducing the enoumous cost existing at present to any potential new F1 teams. Whether or not the result is truly F1 is a moot point. However unless something radical is done, F1 will sink under the present crippling costs.
Sportsman I agree with your ideas. For me this is a good compromise. in my view all the 'hidden technology' inside the car can be bought off the shelf. The trackside spectator can't see inside the car. And the millions spent on R&D add nothing to the spectacle. If the teams really want their cars to be unique from one another let them focus on external features like the aerodynamics.
or the livery
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Rob
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May 14 2008, 01:47 PM
Post #30
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- Craze_b0i,May 13 2008
- 04:23 PM
- Quote:
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I would never be in favour of anyone buying a current or even one year old F1 car, having it delivered by transporter, and only neding fuel and fluids to race. Customer cars should never be existing F1 cars built by other teams. However I think that you should be able to buy all of the neccessary parts, tubs, suspension, brakes, engines and gearboxes from specialist suppliers and asssemble your own car. Tubs you could buy from Dallara. Engines. Cosworth, Judd, Hart and in this case any of the current F1 engine manufacturers. Gearboxes. Hewland is the first one that springs to mind. Aero you could develop yourself, you dont need your own expensive wind tunnel, you rent wind tunnel time as you needed it. This is a radical step but it is a way of reducing the enoumous cost existing at present to any potential new F1 teams. Whether or not the result is truly F1 is a moot point. However unless something radical is done, F1 will sink under the present crippling costs.
Sportsman I agree with your ideas. For me this is a good compromise. in my view all the 'hidden technology' inside the car can be bought off the shelf. The trackside spectator can't see inside the car. And the millions spent on R&D add nothing to the spectacle. If the teams really want their cars to be unique from one another let them focus on external features like the aerodynamics.
The only down side I could see to that is several teams could pool their money, and in effect make a 4-6 car team, with as many resources or more than teams building their own cars.
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