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Istanbul Live Discussion
Topic Started: May 11 2008, 11:55 AM (1,404 Views)
Lord Tau
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Massa wins, Lewis 2nd, Raikkonen 3rd and Kubica 4th.
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dazzerjp
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massa driver of the day - brundle.

personally, id go for kovi
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Norbert
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timmadigan,May 11 2008
02:23 PM
Lord Tau,May 11 2008
09:21 AM
Norbert,May 11 2008
02:20 PM
Heikki pits again - what a rubbish strategy!

He was compromised at the start, though.

Then you change the strategy - nothing says that they couldn't move to a 2-stopper after the bad start.

Poor planning by the McLaren team.

It's not the first time they've ended up doing this though.....

<roflmao>
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Lex
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dazzerjp,May 11 2008
03:31 PM
massa driver of the day - brundle.

personally, id go for kovi

<thumbsup> me too, he drove a stonking race. Mind you, Hammy didn't do too badly on a 3 stopper

McLaren have to work on getting the car right on both sets of tyres or else they'll be screwed

Agree with you there Tim, why a puncture on Lap 1 should require changing a 2-stop to a 3-stopper beggars belief!

McLaren should be taking a very long inward look at themselves
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Lord Tau
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Got to chuckle the toilet seat trophies!
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Lord Tau
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Apparently, ITV are pushed for time, and we cannot see Kimi's press conference interview. However, there seems to be enough time for Mark Blundell to talk crap.
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Red Andy
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That was a much better race following the yawnfest that was Barcelona. Award time, I think:

The David Coulthard Award for Yes, It Really Was Your Fault goes to Giancarlo Fisichella, for a bit of brain fade in turn one ending both his and Nakajima's race. Then he had the audacity to deny it was his fault on television. Sorry, Giancarlo, but that was a tiny bit dim.

The Nick Heidfeld Award for Quietly Getting On With It goes to Fernando Alonso, who got the most out of his car to finish comfortably ahead of Webber, if a long way behind the BMWs. Heidfeld himself had a pretty quiet race, too, and managed to leapfrog Alonso in the pit stops, but was again no match for his teammate. Strange.

The Williams Award for Sudden and Inexplicable Disappearance of Pace goes to BMW, who have gone from being slightly ahead of McLaren in Malaysia and Bahrain to some way behind in Turkey. Hopefully they will be able to recover the lost ground in time for the rest of the season, to stop the year from being yet another McLaren/Ferrari-dominated affair.

The Gilles Villeneuve Award for Most Entertaining Overtaking Moves goes to Heikki Kovalainen for his battles with Rosberg and Glock. Although the McLaren was the much faster car, Kovalainen still deserves kudos for making it more entertaining than it perhaps should have been by failing to get past each driver on the first attempt.

Have to agree with Martin Brundle for Driver of the Day, though, Felipe Massa was a class above everybody today, including his teammate.
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RJHSaints
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FAO: Rams

Rams,May 11 2008
02:18 PM
No, it wasn't fine.

He said it broke in the press conference and you can clearly see this on the replay.

The fact that he extracted that sort of pace out of the car despite those problems show you the sheer class of Raikkonen.  Only Alonso and possibly Hamilton could drive around a situation like that.


Again, given that he scored the fastest lap of the race and that Massa is generally considered to be the quicker of the two around this track (as shown by quali yesterday and his previous win last year), I find it hard to believe the damage (if indeed there was any) affected him that much. How can you do a 1:26.5 with a seriously damaged front wing? Answer: you can't, hence Kimi's front wing clearly wasn't impaired enough to hinder him significantly.

Obviously, he is going to search for some sort of excuse for finishing third.
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Rams
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Have you seen the replay yet?
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Norbert
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Lord Tau,May 11 2008
02:51 PM
Apparently, ITV are pushed for time, and we cannot see Kimi's press conference interview. However, there seems to be enough time for Mark Blundell to talk crap.

How could they be pushed for bloody time? The race finished about 20 mins before the programme was scheduled to end!!!
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RJHSaints
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No, I haven't seen the replay, but I fail to see any reason to accept your version of events purely based on the evidence of lap times. Raikkonen, apart from when he was stuck behind Kubica, was largely able to match Massa's pace. So either Raikkonen was able to compensate for whatever he lost as a result of the damage (doubtful if the loss was significant, as Massa had shown himself throuhgout the weekend to be more than a match for Kimi) or the damage simply did not affect Raikkonen's pace that much.

I have searched around for some pictures to try and disprove your claim to no avail, but I will say that during the onboard shots of Raikkonen on ITV's coverage I saw very little wrong with the car. It was handling fine, Raikkonen seemed able to push in the same way he would normally and I could see no damage to the wing.

I have also read nothing about the alleged problem in any of the reports on itv-f1 or the BBC yet, so clearly it was not seen as being a major problem. In fact, itv-f1 reports no collision, merely that Kimi had lost time as a result of being blocked by Kovalainen. Also, there's an argument that Kovalainen might have picked up his puncture from the debris of Fisi/Nakajima's crash, thus dismissing the possibility of contact between the two.

I'll try and watch the reply when it comes up on ITV's web coverage, but until then I remain skeptical.

OK, here goes:

http://www.formula1.com/gallery/race/2008/791/

Raikkonen behind Hamilton in the closing stages (bottom row, second from the right).

If anyone can point out what exactly is wrong with that front wing, please do. It looks fine to me so I suggest Kimi is fiddling around for excuses rather than admitting he just had a bad race. If you look at Massa's front wing in the other shots it looks exactly the same to me. But whatever, I'll let others judge for themselves.
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safc_fan89
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Kimi's not an excuses person. You obviously know more than he does, of course.

Plus, did you do this thorough dissection of Hamilton's car after Bahrain? He was about 2 seconds off the pace despite it not looking like something was wrong with the car. All it takes is for one piece of the car to come off and you lose a certain amount of time. Something could easily have come off which meant he was understeering slightly, for example. I think he would know about it better than you.
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safc_fan89
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Also, interesting about Hamilton having to do 3 stops. If it is because of being unsure whether the tyres will last...he is clearly pushing them too far.
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dazzerjp
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surely, if there was a problem, ferrari would have giggled the wing about in the pit, or adjusted the height to try and dial out any suppossed problem.

they didnt do anything in either of his stops. didnt even inspect the wing.

Kimi making excuses for losing out to LH and Massa. Nothing wrong with that; hes just human
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safc_fan89
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It's just funny how some people only see things when the teammate of their favourite driver says something. Laughable actually.
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