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The Dream team; were they really that good?
Topic Started: Apr 29 2008, 02:31 PM (1,061 Views)
Alien_SAP_Fiend
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Brawn, Todt, Schumi all left Ferrari at pretty much the same time and everybody thought that Ferrari would suffer.

What happens? Both Championships last year and looking extremely good after four races this year.

Was all that success up to 2005 really down to the MS/Brawn/Todt combination, or did those Bridgestones just fit nice and snug?
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SaveOurSilverstone
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Alien_SAP_Fiend,Apr 29 2008
03:31 PM
Both Championships last year

Hungary 07+
''Spy-gate''



thats a can of worms i hope nobody opens...... <whistle> <whistle>


to answer your question i think that they were responsible for the success, perhaps just either one of them on their own may not have made that massive a difference, put the 3 together at the same time and history tells you what they achieved. doubt we will get another dream team like it for a good few years.
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AndyW76
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It wasn't that the "dream team" leaving would cause an adverse effect, the ferrari team would have to have rocks in their heads not to build some continuity in to their engineering operations. What couldn't be replicated is the driver. All the could do is sign the best talent available at the time. Fortunately, in signing kimi, they have even managed to have continuity in driving talent.
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Rob
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The dream really wasn't that when they first got together, it's not like all of F1 stopped in 96, and said "oh shit, better pack it in." What they did do was lay the foundation for tremendous success. They were able to sign really good engineers and develop the talent and integrate them into the team (save one traitor). Essentially Ferrari are banking on success breeding success.
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Alien_SAP_Fiend
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I seem to recall much wailing and gnashing of teeth from the Tifosi when Brawn and especially Schumi left, the volume of which increased to a deafening roar in the first part of last season.

Not much moaning about the post-Dream Team team any more, is there? In fact I'd go as far as to say that Ferrari have seldom looked stronger. 2004 all over again, but this time without the people who were given most of the credit.
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Steelstallions
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After living through the 21 year drought which was Ferrari's wilderness years I would say that Dream team is the best way to discribe them.
But the Dream team extends beyond the three mentioned as they would not have done it without the tidal changes in senior management structure, investment from the parent company, infrastructure changes and a certain Luca getting all of this from the then head of FIAT,Agnelli.

Without the part you don't read about so much, their success would have been harder to achieve even with MS at the wheel.
As much as i respect and like Brawn, his current job is an example of what could have been Ferrari without the wholesale changes.

But none of the above detracts from the fact that it seems business as usual and yet i don't even recognise a lot of even the pit crew any more who used to celebrate with MS at the end of a race win.

Thats a dream team when they create the environment to have staff they can hand the reigns to and keep the race wins coming in.
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RJHSaints
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This (somewhat) dissenting voice argues that Ferrari's post-"Dream team" success can also be attributed to the failure and misfortune of others, though it also doesn't want to take all credit away from the new guys. (bit of third person talk there for a lark) ;)

But think about it.

In the last one and a bit years, Ferrari were exceptionally close to losing the WDC, and would certainly have lost the WCC if not for Spygate (note: I'm not going to argue about this). Also, McLaren (Ferrari's only realistic challengers in terms of budget and racing pedigree) have suffered this year with no experienced team leader and the massive cash drain from Spygate, while Williams are not the force they were, BMW are Sauber with a couple of years' development and Renault, Honda and Toyota have all really lacked either money or racing pedigree that Ferrari have in abundance.

I'm not saying the new generation doesn't deserve credit, but there are other factors at play too.
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everythingoes
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Don't forget Rory Byrne as part of the dream team. What people have failed to notice is the continuity that Ferrari have managed to maintain in the staff. Not only have the current team leaders come up from withing the organisation, they have learnt their craft from the previous bosses. They did not need to bring in people from outside to fill spaces created by members of the dream team leaving. Except Kimi, of course.
More importantly, at least 3 members of the dream team still retain some sort of role in the current set-up, I am sure even Brawn was available on call till he signed up with Honda. In any organisation, that sort of continuity, will allow a smooth transition and continued success.
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John
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Alien_SAP_Fiend,Apr 29 2008
10:04 PM
I seem to recall much wailing and gnashing of teeth from the Tifosi when Brawn and especially Schumi left, the volume of which increased to a deafening roar in the first part of last season.

Not much moaning about the post-Dream Team team any more, is there?  In fact I'd go as far as to say that Ferrari have seldom looked stronger.  2004 all over again, but this time without the people who were given most of the credit.

First off a little history lesson... least ye forget

When the so called dream team was created Ferrari was a shadow of it's former self... yet even within it's first year (1996) they won more GP than they had in total between 1991-1995.

Also this so called dream team managed 6 consecutive WCC and 5 consecutive WDC titles... that has never been achieved by any other team in the history of F1. not to mention a few runner up spots.

So people a little perspective is needed...

If and when the 'new dream team' can equal the achievements of their predecessors then maybe we can talk about just how formidable they are...

Also the very fact they inherited a record breaking, multiple winning, F1 team means the even the now departed members of the original dream team can take some credit for the new dream teams continued success...



Even Schumacher... (his testing feedback is what really made all the difference don't you know) <devil>
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Brave_Lee_Flea
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I think both John and RJHSaints have very valid points.

Part of the the dream team's achievement was to leave behind an organisation capable of continuing to win with a carefully planned succession, which makes their achievements all the greater.

That said it is also true that at the moment the other teams are not yet as strong as they should/could be for various reasons. The new team at Ferrari can't be blamed for that of course and it is to their credit that they have not dropped the ball they way say Renault, McLaren and Williams have (in their various different ways) but it does make their task a little easier than it might otherwise have been.

(I exclude BMW from accusations of ball dropping as they are making progress as well as could be expected or even hoped for.)

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John
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Petra Lead,Apr 30 2008
09:42 AM
That said it is also true that at the moment the other teams are not yet as strong as they should/could be for various reasons.

and by extension to that premise it can also be said that part of the 1996-2006 Ferrari teams success was because their rivals failed to improve enough to match them.

Petra Lead,Apr 30 2008
09:42 AM
(I exclude BMW from accusations of ball dropping as they are making progress as well as could be expected or even hoped for.)


I think it is fair to say that the ball dropping must also include BMW...

I'm thinking that had BMW produced the car the have now straight off and not spent the months before the first race correcting what was a bit of dog... how close might they be now to Ferrari, or at least how much ahead of McLaren might they be... <think>
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Brave_Lee_Flea
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What I didn't say in my first post that I should have is that I believe that the Dream Team raised the bar in F1. In the same way that, say, Stephen Hendry did in snooker they redefined forever the standards that teams must aspire to in order to be successful.

And that is some achievement.
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pedal power
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They were a dream team

I think the cruciak turning point in Ferrari's sucess was the apointment of Todt.
When Todt Joined Ferrari, he told Luca what & who they needed, and over time they got those people.

As the saying going, the rest is history. The new crop of personnel learnt from the dream.

To show just one example, look at how Massa as a driver has improved with Michael’s help. No doubt the other members of the dream team had similar effect on the next crop of engineers, technicians, designers…..

One other thing to note is that you could have all the best people in your team, but it’s nothing without an experienced winning driver.
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John
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pedal power,Apr 30 2008
11:03 AM
One other thing to note is that you could have all the best people in your team, but it’s nothing without an experienced winning driver.

BMW... :s
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FlutterBy
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pedal power,Apr 30 2008
10:03 AM
One other thing to note is that you could have all the best people in your team, but it's nothing without an experienced winning driver.

Or some very good electronics................. <whistle>
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