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Bali; US Isolated
Topic Started: Dec 16 2007, 06:10 AM (245 Views)
Alien_SAP_Fiend
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"Lead the way, or get out of the way"

Nice.

They still managed to get any reference to actual targets removed.

Just vague promises to reduce emissions.
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Red Andy
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Given the general anti-science state of the US (upwards of a third of Americans, according to recent opinion polls, believe that God created the universe in six days at some point in the last 10,000 years, and more than half reject biological evolution as a scientific explanation of the diversity of life), it's unsurprising that their politicians should ignore the overwhelming consensus of the global scientific community in pursuit of their own economic ends. Or maybe I'm just being cynical.
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AndyW76
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This really annoys me. Why doesn't the US take the rest of the world seriously? When one of their own ex-vice presidents is lambasting them, may be it is time for them to sit up and listen. The big issue in the US is obviously their car industry. Why does anyone need a big V8 in an average car, especially when a 2.0L BMW can achieve pretty much the same performance, with half the pollution output? Also, how come they haven't tried to create a market for deisel. Modern deisel cars are every bit as good as their petrol counter parts, yet they are still thought of a slow, dirty and noisey.
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Red Andy
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Not to mention the numerous enterprising electric car builders in the US who have been bought out and shut down by various car manufacturers and oil companies.
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AndyW76
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Red Andy,Dec 17 2007
04:55 PM
Not to mention the numerous enterprising electric car builders in the US who have been bought out and shut down by various car manufacturers and oil companies.

I actually have an issu with electric cars. The thing is they still don't solve the pollution problem. The electricity still needs generation some where, which is usually oil or coal fired, so you are just moving the pollution further up the line to the powerstation. The best idea is for cars to be internal combustion and electric hybrid. I'm amazed that no-one has mass marketed a deisel electric car. I know toyota has the prius but it doesn't achieve anywhere near the ecconomy figures it claims, generally only being as good as a decent deisel. Also, there really isn't that much marketing for alternative fuels yet. Everyone talks about the future being hydrogen fuel cells but I've yet to see evidence that this will come about in the next 30 years.
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Andy
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Quote:
 
Why does anyone need a big V8 in an average car, especially when a 2.0L BMW can achieve pretty much the same performance, with half the pollution output? Also, how come they haven't tried to create a market for deisel.


I want a V8 , just for the sound :D
Vette here I come - Not! The taxes here in Germoney would kill any fun. Even my 1989 Golf II would have been in doubt if I haven't had done something on the emission system. It wasn't cheap but yet it makes the money :)
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AndyW76
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Andy,Dec 17 2007
05:42 PM
Quote:
 
Why does anyone need a big V8 in an average car, especially when a 2.0L BMW can achieve pretty much the same performance, with half the pollution output? Also, how come they haven't tried to create a market for deisel.


I want a V8 , just for the sound :D
Vette here I come - Not! The taxes here in Germoney would kill any fun. Even my 1989 Golf II would have been in doubt if I haven't had done something on the emission system. It wasn't cheap but yet it makes the money :)

You could just have an active exhaust fitted, though it would be odd having a golf that sounds like a V8.
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Alien_SAP_Fiend
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Red Andy,Dec 17 2007
04:55 PM
Not to mention the numerous enterprising electric car builders in the US who have been bought out and shut down by various car manufacturers and oil companies.

http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nsJAlrYjGz8
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dazzerjp
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AndyW76,Dec 17 2007
05:31 PM
Red Andy,Dec 17 2007
04:55 PM
Not to mention the numerous enterprising electric car builders in the US who have been bought out and shut down by various car manufacturers and oil companies.

I actually have an issu with electric cars. The thing is they still don't solve the pollution problem. The electricity still needs generation some where, which is usually oil or coal fired, so you are just moving the pollution further up the line to the powerstation. The best idea is for cars to be internal combustion and electric hybrid. I'm amazed that no-one has mass marketed a deisel electric car. I know toyota has the prius but it doesn't achieve anywhere near the ecconomy figures it claims, generally only being as good as a decent deisel. Also, there really isn't that much marketing for alternative fuels yet. Everyone talks about the future being hydrogen fuel cells but I've yet to see evidence that this will come about in the next 30 years.

honda will release a hydrogen fuel cells/electric hybrid next year
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AndyW76
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dazzerjp,Dec 18 2007
03:57 AM
AndyW76,Dec 17 2007
05:31 PM
Red Andy,Dec 17 2007
04:55 PM
Not to mention the numerous enterprising electric car builders in the US who have been bought out and shut down by various car manufacturers and oil companies.

I actually have an issu with electric cars. The thing is they still don't solve the pollution problem. The electricity still needs generation some where, which is usually oil or coal fired, so you are just moving the pollution further up the line to the powerstation. The best idea is for cars to be internal combustion and electric hybrid. I'm amazed that no-one has mass marketed a deisel electric car. I know toyota has the prius but it doesn't achieve anywhere near the ecconomy figures it claims, generally only being as good as a decent deisel. Also, there really isn't that much marketing for alternative fuels yet. Everyone talks about the future being hydrogen fuel cells but I've yet to see evidence that this will come about in the next 30 years.

honda will release a hydrogen fuel cells/electric hybrid next year

But will that just end up like the Insight?
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Alien_SAP_Fiend
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AndyW76,Dec 18 2007
11:49 AM
But will that just end up like the Insight?

No, the Insight was a concept car which they sold to the public.

It wasn't practical enough and was never produced in large enough numbers. It was replaced by the Civic IMA (which I own and love) and I guess the Fuel-cell Honda is the next incarnation of the Insight.
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AndyW76
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Alien_SAP_Fiend,Dec 19 2007
10:01 AM
AndyW76,Dec 18 2007
11:49 AM
But will that just end up like the Insight?

No, the Insight was a concept car which they sold to the public.

It wasn't practical enough and was never produced in large enough numbers. It was replaced by the Civic IMA (which I own and love) and I guess the Fuel-cell Honda is the next incarnation of the Insight.

I'm all for new technologies improving the way we live and our surroundings, though I am sceptical about how serious the industry takes these new cleaner technologies, instead using them as a PR excersize. I hope I am wrong, but there seems to be very little advancement towards introducing clean fuels.
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The STIG
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lets get this straight, I'd buy the cleanest, least producing car ever built. And STILL get a V12 Jaguar and drive it through a greenpeace conference just to annoy the greenie environazis.

Therefore, I don't care what a load of environmentalists say. I'll drive what I like, now move or I'll flatten you.
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Alien_SAP_Fiend
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The STIG,Dec 19 2007
12:02 PM
And STILL get a V12 Jaguar and drive it through a greenpeace conference just to annoy the greenie environazis.

<clap>

I will join you.
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