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| Which car is worse? The 1999 BAR or the 2007 Honda | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 18 2007, 10:10 AM (236 Views) | |
| Monty | Aug 18 2007, 10:10 AM Post #1 |
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Chief Engineer
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So what would you say is the worst car out of the two? considering that BAR said they would win in their first year and didnt score a point was dreadful. This years car as everyone knows is rubbish, but what would you say was better? |
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| dcoulthard19 | Aug 18 2007, 10:15 AM Post #2 |
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Chief Engineer
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Interesting question there fellow DC fan. I would say the 99 car was worse because it was slow and barely finished any races, it showed a bit of speed in a couple of races but most of the time they were well down. This year's Honda is slow but it does finish the more majority of races and at least it has a point whereas in 99 there were no points. If you look at it budget and resource wise it makes this year's car look alot worse although in 99 they had a pretty big budget too if I remember rightly. |
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| Monty | Aug 18 2007, 10:32 AM Post #3 |
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Chief Engineer
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Im not really sure because both cars have their faults this years is very slow and the Bar from 1999 was a more unreliable version of this years redbull. It did have some pace with Villeneuve qualifying 5th in Imola and running 3rd for much of the Spanish race. It was a poor car though and JV retired frm the first 13 races :o.Although JV finished 8th in Monza so using todays points system they would be even, two poor cars though will be interesting to see if this supposed "hard work back at the factory" which you here all the time has translated into some pace next weekend. |
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| safc_fan89 | Aug 18 2007, 10:44 AM Post #4 |
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safc_fan89
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The 1999 car WAS in the top 10 several times. It was better relative to the other cars. The 07 Honda is just shit on wheels. |
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| dcoulthard19 | Aug 18 2007, 11:03 AM Post #5 |
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Chief Engineer
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Remember it took 9 or 10 races before Jacques even registered a finish, most of those due to failures, this year's car isn't that bad on the reliability front. |
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| safc_fan89 | Aug 18 2007, 11:24 AM Post #6 |
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safc_fan89
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So? It's 2 seconds or more off the pace! |
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| dcoulthard19 | Aug 18 2007, 11:34 AM Post #7 |
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Chief Engineer
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We're not comparing the 2007 Honda with the 2007 mclaren, we are comparing it with the 99 BAR as it says in the topic title. To which there is no 2 second gap not that it is easy to compare between cars from different season. This years Honda is poor as was the 99 BAR(apart from one or two top 10s), this year Honda is way more reliable than the 99 BAR was so has the edge. If a car is fast but can't finish then its crap but the 99 BAR was hardly ever fast making even crappier. |
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| Monty | Aug 18 2007, 12:26 PM Post #8 |
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Chief Engineer
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To be fair though BAR had no starting point whereas Honda had a race winning car last year, BAR had a Tyrell . Also they have good drivers unlike 99 so that might make the car look better than it is
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| safc_fan89 | Aug 18 2007, 12:55 PM Post #9 |
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safc_fan89
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The closer you are to the front, the better the car. This season's Honda is the worst Honda/BAR there has ever been. Reliability counts for nothing if you finish last. |
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| Red Andy | Aug 18 2007, 01:52 PM Post #10 |
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The 1999 BAR had the pace of a midfield car, but was very unreliable. (didn't JV retire from something like the first 11 races of the season?) The 2007 Honda is just slow; definitely this year's car is worse. |
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| dcoulthard19 | Aug 18 2007, 02:00 PM Post #11 |
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Chief Engineer
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And pace counts for nothing if you don't finish, it works both ways. The worse reliability I have ever seen in F1 is why that 99 BAR car got no points as people have said in this thread there was a bit of pace there at times. At least this year's Honda can get points when others fail and at the end of the day you are judged on the points you score and your position in championship standings. Unfortunately for Honda they haven't taken all those opportunities which came at Spain, Canada and Europe but thats mainly down to their poor tactics than the car itself. |
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| NewMrMe | Aug 18 2007, 02:09 PM Post #12 |
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Engineer
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The 1999 BAR was unreliable but there were several races where it was in contention for points on merit if it had of held together. This year's Honda needs other people to drop out to score. Remember that in Spain 1999 Villeneuve ran third for a large portion of the race. This year's Honda has never been anywhere near challenging for a podium. Also, had the championship scored down to 8th place in 1999, BAR would have scored more then the 1 points Honda currently have. I say the 99 BAR was the better car. A comparison of the results. BAR 1999 Australia Villeneuve Q11 Retired Broken Wing Zonta Q19 Retired Gearbox Brazil Villeneuve Q21 (Qualifying times were disallowed as a penalty) Retired Gearbox Zonta DNS Qualifying Accident San Marino Villeneuve Q5 Retired Gearbox Salo Q19 R7 Monaco Villeneuve Q8 Retired Oil Leak Salo Q12 Retired Brakes Spain Villeneuve Q6 Retired Gearbox Salo Q16 R8 Canada Villeneuve Q16 Retired Accident Zonta Q17 Retired Accident France Villeneuve Q12 Retired Spin Zonta Q10 R9 Britain Villeneuve Q9 Retired Halfshaft Zonta Q16 Retires Suspension Austria Villeneuve Q9 Retired Halfshaft Zonta Q15 Retired Clutch Germany Villeneuve Q12 Retired Accident Zonta Q18 Retired Engine Hungary Villeneuve Q9 Retired Clutch Zonta Q17 R13 Belgium Villeneuve Q11 R15 Zonta Q14 Retired Gearbox Italy Villeneuve Q11 R8 Zonta Q18 Retired Wheel Bearing Europe Villeneuve Q8 Retired Clutch Zonta Q17 R8 Malaysia Villeneuve Q10 Retired Hydraulics Zonta Q13 Retired Engine Japan Villeneuve Q11 R9 Zonta Q18 R12 Honda 2007 Australia Button Q14 R15 Barrichello Q16 R11 Malaysia Button Q15 R12 Barrichello Q22 (Engine penalty) R11 Bahrain Button Q16 Retired Accident Barrichello Q15 R13 Spain Button Q14 R12 Barrichello Q12 R10 Monaco Button Q10 R11 Barrichello Q9 R10 Canada Button Q15 Retired Gearbox Barrichello Q13 R12 USA Button Q13 R12 Barrichello Q15 Retired Accident France Button Q12 R8 Barrichello Q13 R11 Britain Button Q17 R10 Barrichello Q13 R9 Europe Button Q17 Retired Spin Barrichello Q14 R11 Hungary Button Q17 Retired Throttle Barrichello Q18 R18 |
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| Monty | Aug 18 2007, 02:20 PM Post #13 |
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I said that in post 3
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| Monty | Aug 18 2007, 02:22 PM Post #14 |
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Chief Engineer
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I wouldnt say there was really an oppurtunity in Spain, all the cars in front of Barrichello were just plain quicker. |
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| safc_fan89 | Aug 18 2007, 02:49 PM Post #15 |
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If they haven't taken the opportunities, then that is their problem. And you fail to mention that they haven't taken the chances because they were too slow! In 1999 they were a new team. This season there is no excuse. |
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. Also they have good drivers unlike 99 so that might make the car look better than it is

1:02 AM Jul 11