Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to The Pit Lane. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Can you tell a champion in their first season?; or from their first couple of races
Topic Started: Aug 16 2007, 06:31 PM (191 Views)
dcoulthard19
Chief Engineer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Can you tell that someone could become champion in the future from their first season(or first couple of races even) or that they won't be. Or does it not hit you till it actually happens?

I think with the majority of champions you could tell from their first couple of races that they could go on and be something special, i.e MS qualifying 7th in the Jordan and Alonso delivering giant shocks in a Minardi that was built in 2 weeks and only just got the the grid. Senna impressed mightily when he burst onto the scene and then quickly went onto big things like MS and Alonso have done in recent past . And of course Hamilton has already shown the qualities of a champion in his first 10 races and surely he will get at least 1 WDC if not many more.

Hakkinen is one of the exceptions in my opinion(although didn't he outqualify Senna in his first race? <think> ), he wasn't great in his early career after being gifted a win by DC in Jerez in 97 suddenly grew out of his skin and became an all mighty driver. I am sure there may have been a couple of other champions not so great in their early career but I don't know alot about all the champions from furthur in the past having started watching F1 in the nineties.

However there were other drivers who from their first races I thought would go on to championship success. One of them was Alesi who showed alot of talent in his first races however wrong career moves ruined what I thought was championship potential. When I first saw Webber in 2002 and then at Jaguar in 2003 I thought he had the makings of a future world champion but for various reasons it hasn't worked out since.
If you have the world championship potential then obviously you have to make the right career moves which is where some drivers failed or are failing.


Overall I think when someone is going to be a champion and certainly a multiple champion when can often tell from seeing their first couple of races.

To extend this topic a bit which champions could you tell were going to reach or had the ability to get their acheivements when you saw them in their first couple of races.

Its hard to word this topic in a simple way but I am sure you know what I am getting at.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rams
Chief Engineer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
dcoulthard19,Aug 16 2007
07:31 PM
Hakkinen is one of the exceptions in my opinion(although didn't he outqualify Senna in his first race? <think> ), he wasn't great in his early career after being gifted a win by DC in Jerez in 97 suddenly grew out of his skin and became an all mighty driver. I am sure there may have been a couple of other champions not so great in their early career but I don't know alot about all the champions from furthur in the past having started watching F1 in the nineties.

Actually Hakkinen made his full debut for Lotus, although he did outqualify Senna in his McLaren debut.

I was very impressed by Montoya, I can't remember his debut but especially that race at Brazil, I thought he'd be a champion for certain. Also Fisico impressed me a lot racing for Jordan in 1997, he could've won the German GP but broke down.

Agreed with Webber as well.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Red Andy
Member Avatar

Moderator
Sometimes you can tell, sometimes you can't.

For example, Schumacher and Alonso clearly made big impacts in their first seasons in F1, and it was quite clear they were going to achieve big things in the future. As DC19 says, though, Hakkinen was not like that, and nor was Damon Hill.

If - hypothetically - Felipe Massa goes on to become WDC (which I think he will at some point in the future, because Ferrari will build a 2002/2004-style dominant car again at some point), how many of us will be able to honestly say "I looked at him in 2002 and saw a future world champion?" I guess the number would be very small.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
dcoulthard19
Chief Engineer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Quote:
 
Actually Hakkinen made his full debut for Lotus, although he did outqualify Senna in his McLaren debut


Ah right, he outqualified Senna on his mclaren debut, that makes sense.

Good point about Montoya though, he showed all the signs that he could win a championship after his first season and almost did win in 2003 but it all went dramatically downhill from there, needed alot more committement, work ethic and composure which he didn't have.

I think Fisi may have been capable of something bigger had he been in a fast car at his peak period, he went to a fast Renault car too late in his career I think.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Red Andy
Member Avatar

Moderator
I've always said that about Fisi. I think his first full season, in 1997, was very impressive and had some of the hallmarks of a future champion. He joined Benetton when it was in rapid decline, and spent the prime years of his career trundling round the midfield in underpowered Benetton and Jordan cars. By the time he got a proper break, in 2005, it was too late.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
gillesno27
Engineer
[ *  *  *  * ]
Red Andy,Aug 16 2007
06:46 PM
Sometimes you can tell, sometimes you can't.

For example, Schumacher and Alonso clearly made big impacts in their first seasons in F1, and it was quite clear they were going to achieve big things in the future. As DC19 says, though, Hakkinen was not like that, and nor was Damon Hill.

If - hypothetically - Felipe Massa goes on to become WDC (which I think he will at some point in the future, because Ferrari will build a 2002/2004-style dominant car again at some point), how many of us will be able to honestly say "I looked at him in 2002 and saw a future world champion?" I guess the number would be very small.

Damon's early career wasn't amazing but his first full year in F1 was pretty good. Brabham at Silverstone 1992 wasn't amazing...

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Hobbes
Member Avatar
Chief Engineer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
I agree totally about Montoya.

Although I personally believe in a team built around him he could have maybe flourished. He was always overshadowed by Raikkonen in his early races at McLaren and I think he put a lot of pressure on himself that wasn't nessacery. Again poor management by McLaren echoing what we have now....
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
safc_fan89
Member Avatar
safc_fan89
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
You can say who has potential. If a driver has an impressive start then in theory, there is more to come.

Montoya had the talent to win the title, but not the mentality. He blew his chance in 2003 by colliding unnecessarily with Barrichello in the penultimate race. He failed to finish the last race through a reliability issue but that's irrelevant...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
NewMrMe
Engineer
[ *  *  *  * ]
Sometimes you can sometimes you cannot.

For every driver who should promise in their first season that went on to win the title there are others that put in an equally stunning performance and then didn't go on to win the title.

Alesi, Montoya, Fisichella, etc, have already been mentioned.

Johnny Herbert was 4th in his first race. His teammate, Alessandro Nannini (who would go on to win in Suzuka that year) was 6th. At the time Herbert was still badly suffering from his F3000 injuries from the previous season. At the time he still couldn't get in and out of the car himself without being lifted.

Heinz Harald Frentzen qualified 5th for his first GP at Brazil 1994 in a Sauber. He would also have two second row starts that year.

Martin Brundle finished second in Detroit 1984 (his first season) in a Tyrrell, the only non-turbo team on the grid, just half a second behind reigning World Champion Nelson Piquet.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rob
Member Avatar

Admin
I think it is hard to say who will be a champ from 1 season. You can who might be, but it is still a guess. I actually think it is easier to eliminate future champs arely in their career. I don't recalls anyone saying Sato, Liuzzi, Sutil, Albers, Yamamoto, or Speed future WDC.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
vikki
Refueller
[ *  *  * ]
Rob,Aug 16 2007
10:43 PM
I don't recalls anyone saying Sato, Liuzzi, Sutil, Albers, Yamamoto, or Speed future WDC.

i remember journos claiming liuzzi was a future wdc before he even got to f1 which really bugged me at the time.

on the basis of beating the weakest field in f3000 history.

some were even throwing about schumacher comparisons. <doh> (michael not ralf btw)

if i actually bought f1 mags instead of reading them for free in the shop i reckon i could blackmail a few people now. :)

unless of course tonio is a late developer like our nige. <unsure>
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
TheCompleteGuitarist
Driver
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I think Hills Brabham was so bad he could barely qualify it.

Didn't Mansell break the silverstone lap record on his first lap ever in the lotus or is that an urban myth?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
« Previous Topic · Formula 1 · Next Topic »
Add Reply