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BUTTON; HONDA
Topic Started: Feb 27 2007, 10:56 AM (683 Views)
theghostofnuvolari
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JB was as good or better than Jacques, Jacques was about as quick as Damon.

Should we rubbish these two Champion's achievements too ?
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Rob
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Norbert,Feb 27 2007
10:19 AM

The 2005 Honda could have been WDC material had the right driver been in it, I reckon Schumacher, Alonso or Raikonnen could have had the title, or a very good crack at it.

Not so sure, that 3 race ban might have put a damper on their chances. <whistle>
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vikki
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theghostofnuvolari,Feb 27 2007
07:38 PM
JB was as good or better than Jacques, Jacques was about as quick as Damon.

Should we rubbish these two Champion's achievements too ?

well this is a thread to bash jenson.

but if you want to be rude about jv or damon please feel free to start another debate.

you will get plenty of people willing to contribute. <thumbs>
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theghostofnuvolari
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vikki,Feb 27 2007
08:12 PM
but if you want to be rude about jv or damon please feel free to start another debate.

given i'm trying to show some support for jb, that was the last thing on my mind.
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Monty
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theghostofnuvolari,Feb 27 2007
08:23 PM
vikki,Feb 27 2007
08:12 PM
but if you want to be rude about jv or damon please feel free to start another debate.

given i'm trying to show some support for jb, that was the last thing on my mind.

We should probably just forget this thread, these threads always descend into chaos normally with me and the Saint. Lets just stop it early so nobody gets insulted ;-)
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The Saint
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Rob,Feb 27 2007
08:06 PM
Norbert,Feb 27 2007
10:19 AM

The 2005 Honda could have been WDC material had the right driver been in it, I reckon Schumacher, Alonso or Raikonnen could have had the title, or a very good crack at it.

Not so sure, that 3 race ban might have put a damper on their chances. <whistle>

Aye Rob, which is exactly why I asked if it was the 2004 or 2006 Honda he was talking about. But they were also stripped of their points along with the race ban mate.
So what he meant was that to show a what a true world champion you are, you must have a second tier car, be banned for several races, lose all your points and then win the WDC….and then, but only then, you may be considered to be as good as Damon Hill!!!
It’s just too funny!
roflmao
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GordonB
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Now now everyone - I feel that I started the descent into slanging with my "Bull" comment.

But what I want to make clear is that I'm not trying to make out that JB is god's gift to F1 - I was just arguing with a statement that said he's conclusively proved that he isn't up to the task of becoming WDC.

I'm not saying he will, but he's certainly not _proved_ that he _can't_.
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Rob
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Ok, I just did a little checking. In Jenson's first 2 seasons, his teammates had the better of him by a good margin 32-14, but this was also his first two years in F1, so take the stat with a grain of salt, and he really hadn't start to hone his race craft, since then 2002 onwards Button has beaten his combined teammates by a combined 209-80. That includes beating Truli, who was beating Alonso in the WDC standings in 04 until he was canned by Flavio (for beating Alonso) in 02. Being one point shy of tripling the point total of 97 WDC JV, exposing Sato for being way way overrated, and trashing 5 times WCC team member Rubens.

Button has not had a Shumi, Kimi, or Alonso for a teammate (but then again neither have they). People say the best way to judge a driver is comparing him to his teammates. I challenge anyone here to compare and tell me Button shouldn't be automatically on the list of the top 5 drivers currently in F1 (I personally say top 3, but that's just me talkin)

I'm not a Button fan, just someone who wants to see a guy get his due.
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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Rob you speak common sense and use the statistics to back up your point. Funnily enough people would rather just use the season where he was beaten by Fisi than consider why TWO TOP TEAMS chose to slog it out over his contract. In fact if you put that season into perspective there were a huge amount of DNFs for both of them so it's hard to say the 32 to 14 is a thrashing.

I am a fan. But I don't hype him. I am just following his progress to see if and how he manages to overcome the challenges thrown at him.

More fun than watching Kimi being gifted a great(?) car.
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flood1
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Yeah, I like Button too. But, two top teams slogging it out? Are you talking about Williams and BAR?
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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No Williams and 'Honda', okay they're not Mclaren and Ferrari, but nor are they Red Bull, Minardi, Jordan, Arrows, Spyker Toro Rosso.

Williams a once (albeit fading) MAJOR force and HONDA one of the worlds biggest auto manufacturers.

They sound big to me.
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flood1
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TheCompleteGuitarist,Mar 1 2007
12:58 AM
No Williams and 'Honda', okay they're not Mclaren and Ferrari, but nor are they Red Bull, Minardi, Jordan, Arrows, Spyker Toro Rosso.

Williams a once (albeit fading) MAJOR force and HONDA one of the worlds biggest auto manufacturers.

They sound big to me.

Yeah, Honda, I know. I'm just being a jerk. I'm a Williams guy. Today they are seen as "was" and Honda "will be". I hope that Williams "will be" before Honda, but I think Button probably made the right deal.
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TheCompleteGuitarist
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I was always a Williams follower too, but they always treated their champs like shit. They never had a No1 on the car. Then they hire jerks like Ralph and juan instead of doing a ron dennis and for once nurturing.

If Hamilton had been discovered by Frank you could consider his career ruined. Sorry Lewis but this year we have a real chance with Fizi, Heidfeld, Kimi or anyone else but you so go and take a sabbatical with spyker. "Thanks for that Frank".

So maybe now you can see why/how JB made up his mind.
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flood1
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TheCompleteGuitarist,Mar 1 2007
02:57 AM
I was always a Williams follower too, but they always treated their champs like shit. They never had a No1 on the car. Then they hire jerks like Ralph and juan instead of doing a ron dennis and for once nurturing.

If Hamilton had been discovered by Frank you could consider his career ruined. Sorry Lewis but this year we have a real chance with Fizi, Heidfeld, Kimi or anyone else but you so go and take a sabbatical with spyker. "Thanks for that Frank".

So maybe now you can see why/how JB made up his mind.

Didn't Williams drop Button for Montoya? And didn't Renault drop Button for Alonso? Williams have shown disrespect for their Champs. Was that about salary? Frank "Any average race driver can win in a great car". Hill and Villeneuve, 96 and 97.

Or am I wrong about their attitude?

Today, I'm pulling for the private teams because I'm "old school".
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Rob
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TheCompleteGuitarist,Feb 28 2007
06:42 PM
Rob you speak common sense and use the statistics to back up your point. Funnily enough people would rather just use the season where he was beaten by Fisi than consider why TWO TOP TEAMS chose to slog it out over his contract. In fact if you put that season into perspective there were a huge amount of DNFs for both of them so it's hard to say the 32 to 14 is a thrashing.

I am a fan. But I don't hype him. I am just following his progress to see if and how he manages to overcome the challenges thrown at him.

More fun than watching Kimi being gifted a great(?) car.

Thanks <thumbs>

In all honesty I am a reformed Button basher, but not really a fan. I used to slog on him as bad as anyone until about half way through 05 when it became apparent he was making Sato look like a big pile of poo, I know that is not saying much, but 37-1 in 05 DOES say something.

Last year he beat Rubens by as much as Shumi did. Shumi lost a bit between 03-06, but most still put him in the top 3 in F1. Since Button beat Rubens by as much as Shumi did, he deserves respect. I'm not saying he is as good as Shumi was, or Alonso and Kimi are, but I cannot name a driver other than Kimi or Alonso that I'd currently rank above Button in F1. He's got driving talent but IMO not the killer instinct. He can be a WDC, but I don't think he will ever be a legend.
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