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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 27 2007, 10:56 AM (685 Views) | |
| Red Andy | Feb 27 2007, 05:09 PM Post #31 |
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Sorry, but this is a bit silly. By the end of the 2006 season the Honda was probably faster than the McLaren; and, as you have pointed out elsewhere, Jenson was the highest scorer in the last few races of the season. Somehow I doubt that was a "crappy" car. |
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| theghostofnuvolari | Feb 27 2007, 05:11 PM Post #32 |
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a single fastest lap is meaningless, but over a full season you are creating a pattern or trend that confirms the fact that the driver in front, with more points in the championship and a better reputation is also demonstrably on average faster. a fastest lap doesn't prove anything, but it is indicative of a great many things. if you like i'll add up the time difference at the finish of each race and divide by the number of laps. in fact i think i will.
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| theghostofnuvolari | Feb 27 2007, 05:31 PM Post #33 |
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the data's very sketchy, with too many incompleted races by one or other driver, and of course often people cruise around at the end. but on average when the both finished MS finished roughly 18 seconds in front of RB in 2005, and JB finished roughly 31 seconds in front of RB in 2006 from race 5. just 10 races in 2005 and 8 in 2006. i'm not saying it's proof, but i am saying it's a reasonable indication of relative performance. so i am saying that jb still gets put down too much for his performance... or schumacher was over-rated, it would have to be one or the other. rubens is the only measuring stick we have... |
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| theghostofnuvolari | Feb 27 2007, 05:49 PM Post #34 |
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in 2005 RB scored 38 points or 61% of the points scored by MS in 2006 RB scored 30 points or 54% of the points scored by JB. now while this doesn't make JB the next marvel comics super hero it should suggest that, even if RB had trouble getting used to the new car (which let's face it is a job he's resonably well paid to do), there's very little evidence that JB is a complete donut. |
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| theghostofnuvolari | Feb 27 2007, 05:54 PM Post #35 |
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i'm not going to write any more on this (horray !! i hear), and know that there's lies, damn lies and statistics. but i challenge anyone to show that JB is a materially worse driver than MS, based on the relative performance of their identical teammate. I think you have to go back to when Fisi and Ralf were his teammates to find a proof of mediocrity on JB's part, and he's improved a lot since. Happy, as always, to be proved wrong. |
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| The Saint | Feb 27 2007, 06:40 PM Post #36 |
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I take it you are talking about the 2006 or maybe the 2004 Honda. But you know if my aunt had a tadger she'd be my uncle. |
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| X-Othermic | Feb 27 2007, 06:49 PM Post #37 |
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I am not doubting Jenson's credentials as a good driver. Please empathise here: GOOD. While Jenson may have the style, the racecraft, even the speed, i reckon he lacks that final few qualitys that masks a good driver from a great driver. Look at Alonso and Schumacher and you'll see what i mean. While Schumacher and Alonso will get their heads down and grind away (Alonso in particular last year), Jenson seems to simply want to get in the best car and win that way. I don't think he has the tenacity to mount a championship challenge. My two cents. |
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| Monty | Feb 27 2007, 07:03 PM Post #38 |
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and Olivier Panis won in a back of the grid car
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| The Saint | Feb 27 2007, 07:09 PM Post #39 |
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In the best cars available |
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| Monty | Feb 27 2007, 07:11 PM Post #40 |
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I believe Alonso won in his first season in a diescent car but it was far from the best but he won in the dry , Shumacher almost won a few championships in a far from great car.
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| The Saint | Feb 27 2007, 07:13 PM Post #41 |
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And Jochen Rindt won a WDC when he was dead, but what has that got to do with anything? |
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| vikki | Feb 27 2007, 07:14 PM Post #42 |
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i will have a go. you say jenson has improved since he raced fisi suggesting a drivers performance can change. yet the rubens that raced against jenson is "identical" to the one that raced schumi suggesting a drivers performance cant change? |
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| Monty | Feb 27 2007, 07:15 PM Post #43 |
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Im just saying if you can get lucky anyone can win! |
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| craggle78 | Feb 27 2007, 07:19 PM Post #44 |
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Ah yet ANOTHER Jenson debate.......... Button is a GOOD F1 driver IMO............not a great one, and will NEVER be one even if he does find himself in the right situation or team........ I can't think of ANY race in his 7 years in the sport that I sat up and thought, christ that Jenson Button is out-standing, or my word that was an incredible race by Jenson. I of course can list LOTS of races that I have thought "That was an awesome race by _____" when talking about, Alonso, Kimi, Schumacher, Senna, Prost, Mansell, Hakkinen, even Montoya, and dare I say even Damon. I just never think I will be saying that about a Jenson performance, he just lacks that cutting edge, that extra bit you need to be something rather special. This "He's never had a great car" argument is a fair one, but after 7 YEARS in the sport if he was ever going to be anything special then someone would have made sure he got his chance in a great car by now.......... He was dumped from Williams who then went on the challenge for a WDC title with Montoya, Renault dumped him in an era when they were just about to break through and then did with the fantastic Alonso. BIG deal if Honda REALLY wanted him, there is hardly any better options out there FOR THEM, all the great drivers had better drives. BIG deal if an only going backwards Williams wanted him, both are hardly inspiring teams at the time. Button is a good and at times a VERY good F1 driver, competant, fast at times, professional but he ain't no world beater............... |
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| theghostofnuvolari | Feb 27 2007, 07:35 PM Post #45 |
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Hi Vikki, ok fair do's, but the year on year difference in the performance of a driver in f1 for 13 years (RB) ought to be negligible, especially compared to the changes you'd expect from a driver over five seasons starting at his second season in f1, when JB raced against Fisi. Just enjoying a heated debate, and keeping it stoked
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, Shumacher almost won a few championships in a far from great car.
12:31 AM Jul 11