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BUTTON; HONDA
Topic Started: Feb 27 2007, 10:56 AM (682 Views)
ELUSIVEJIM
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Personally i think if Jenson wants to win a World Championship before he retires he really needs to try and move from Honda asap.

I feel this will be Fisi's last year at Renault and Button needs to move to a team which will give him this chance.

To be honest i could see Lewis Hamilton becoming the next British World Champion before Button as he has a far better package and i am sure Mclaren are going to have a few great years ahead.

Thoughts people
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safc_fan89
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No-one will want him, so he is stuck there. Ferrari and Mclaren have young drivers, Renault wouldn't sign him, and BMW won't either.
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mclaren2win
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If he did leave honda, it would be to a lower team.
Honda is his best bet, mclaren, ferrari have got there long term plans.
If red bull can show form, than maybe when dc retires there maybe oppurtunity, but at the moment hes stuck with honda.
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dcoulthard19
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I think honda will come good eventually so I think Button's best bet is to stay there, if it doesn't bring him a title challenge the main thing is to keep performing well, you never what door might open up somewhere for him, formula 1 is very unpredictable when it comes to the driver market and you never know what surprise it might bring.
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sportsman
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No top team would want him now.
He proved quite conclusively last year that he hasn't got what it takes to be WDC.
And before anyone starts "Ah but, he has never had a championship winning car"
let me remind you that at the begining of 2006 he was on pole position in Australia and failed to capitalise on that and in some of the early races the Honda was competitive.
The car did fade badly during the season, but how do we know just what the car was capable of. Now everyone will start shouting that he beat his team mate. Once again true.
I have followed JB carreer with interest from his carting days. In the lower formulas he achieved a quite deserved reputation of dragging winning perfomances from non competitive cars. Thats what attracted the big teams interest in him. Once again rightly so.
But I think he has not made the transition to F1 very well and as JPM his chance to shine has come and gone.
Honda will not let him go,he has to much PR value at present.
Maybe if Lewis Hamilton shines and becomes the darling of the British media maybe Honda might think again, but by that time all JB will be left with is a middle order drive.
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GordonB
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sportsman,Feb 27 2007
11:54 AM
No top team would want him now.
He proved quite conclusively last year that he hasn't got what it takes to be WDC.
And before anyone starts "Ah but, he has never had a championship winning car"
let me remind you that at the begining of 2006 he was on pole position in Australia and failed to capitalise on that and in some of the early races the Honda was competitive.
The car did fade badly during the season, but how do we know just what the car was capable of.

I'm sorry but that's just bull.

The car was "competitive" in the first few races only in that it could do a quick couple of laps. Over a race distance it was very poor and both JB and RB went backwards during the race purely because the car was slow.

Over the course of the season the car didn't "fade badly". They messed around with it and improved its race pace a bit until mid season but at the expense of all-out quick-lap speed.

Then towards the end of the season the car was getting a bit better all round so basically your argument about Jensen not getting the best out of the car is just opinion stated as fact.
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sportsman
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GordonB,Feb 27 2007
12:20 PM
sportsman,Feb 27 2007
11:54 AM
No top team would want him now.
He proved quite conclusively last year that he hasn't got what it takes to be WDC.
And before anyone starts "Ah but, he has never had a championship winning car"
let me remind you that at the begining of 2006 he was on pole position in Australia and failed to capitalise on that and in some of the early races the Honda was competitive.
The car did fade badly during the season, but how do we know just what the car was capable of.

I'm sorry but that's just bull.

The car was "competitive" in the first few races only in that it could do a quick couple of laps. Over a race distance it was very poor and both JB and RB went backwards during the race purely because the car was slow.

Over the course of the season the car didn't "fade badly". They messed around with it and improved its race pace a bit until mid season but at the expense of all-out quick-lap speed.

Then towards the end of the season the car was getting a bit better all round so basically your argument about Jensen not getting the best out of the car is just opinion stated as fact.

Hi GordonB.
As much as you think my post is bull, I have stated my opinion as you have stated yours.
I don't tend to use words like bull as I find them rather counter productive and quite frankly insulting.
No where did I state my opinions as being fact they are what I believe to correct.
As for the rest of my post they are also my opinions.
Incidently who is Jensen. I always thought that Jensen was the make of a car, and that Jenson Button was the F1 racer. Oh well, my mistake
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safc_fan89
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Button failed to make the most of hi scar at Australia because of the well-documented problem of Honda not being able to get heat into his tyres, so you can't blame him for that.

How do you know what the car was capable of? You can't, but you can compare his efforts to his teammate. Barrichello was considerably slower than Button, and prior to the season he was touted as being good enough to beat Button. So explain that one...Button did do a good job last season I must admit.

Perhaps in the hands of Alonso, Ferrari would have won the title. But we will never know so you can't say.
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sportsman
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safc_fan89,Feb 27 2007
01:49 PM
How do you know what the car was capable of? You can't, but you can compare his efforts to his teammate. Barrichello was considerably slower than Button, and prior to the season he was touted as being good enough to beat Button. So explain that one...Button did do a good job last season I must admit.


If you read my my post it says quite clearly how do we know what the car was capable of.
I cannot see anywhere where I say that I know what the car was capable of
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The Saint
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There are a lot of strong words here and I too would use the succinct adjective “Bull” to describe them. Things like:-

“No team would want him”
“Leave to a lower team”
“No top team would want him now”
But my favorite is:-
“He proved quite conclusively last year that he hasn't got what it takes to be WDC.” It is my favorite because I am wondering just what he did last year to prove that? It makes no sense. He outscored his team mate by almost twice as many points, he won a race in a 2nd tier car! Do you mean that to show he can be a WDC he has to win a WDC in a car which at its best was the 3rd best team in the field and at its worst was a lot lower! So go on, drop me a list of drivers who have won WDC’s in cars that were not belonging to one of the top 3 teams.
The Aussie thin was covered elsewhere.
“The car did fade badly during the season”, au contraire my friend the car improved as the season progressed.
And when I agree with Gordon in the use of the word bull, remember that it is my opinion that your opinion is bull, I am not attacking anyone personally, just some views expressed here.
But we have done this all before.
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sportsman
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The Saint,Feb 27 2007
02:13 PM
“He proved quite conclusively last year that he hasn't got what it takes to be WDC.” It is my favorite because I am wondering just what he did last year to prove that? It makes no sense. He outscored his team mate by almost twice as many points, he won a race in a 2nd tier car! Do you mean that to show he can be a WDC he has to win a WDC in a car which at its best was the 3rd best team in the field and at its worst was a lot lower! So go on, drop me a list of drivers who have won WDC’s in cars that were not belonging to one of the top 3 teams.
e.

True enough, but why not consider these drivers.
Graham Hill 1962 BRM
Jack Brabham 1966 Brabham
Jackie Stewart 1969 Matra.
None of these drivers were driving a car with a proven history and in the case of Matra they only entered F1 in 1968 with dismal results.
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Norbert
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It takes an exceptional driver to get podiums/wins from a car that is not really capable of doing it. These people are the Fangios, Stewarts, Sennas, Mansells and Schumacher (M)s of this world. Those that go around saying that the car 'might be' this, and 'may do' that are just the excuse makers. I don't recall Senna, Mansell or Schumacher being interviewed and reckonining that 'they ought to be able to win the next race'..... they just went out and did it!!
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u4coffee
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Didn't he out score the rest of the field in the last part of the season?
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timmadigan
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And didn't he have a tremendous season in 2004? Wasn't his BAR the expected challenger in 2005 until the Renault found its pace and took off like a rocket and BAR went backwards?

Although I don't see Jenson becoming WDC due to the differences in cars, its hard to say that nobody would want him from a top team. If something bad happened to one of the Ferrari or McLaren drivers (G-d forbid), I could see Jenson making a move there. He has the experience to help a team move forward.
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GordonB
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sportsman,Feb 27 2007
12:41 PM
Hi GordonB.
As much as you think my post is bull, I have stated my opinion as you have stated yours.
I don't tend to use words like bull as I find them rather counter productive and quite frankly insulting.
No where did I state my opinions as being fact they are what I believe to correct.
As for the rest of my post they are also my opinions.
Incidently who is Jensen. I always thought that Jensen was the make of a car, and that Jenson Button was the F1 racer. Oh well, my mistake

That's ok you can take the mick out of my spelling all you like.

By almost any measure, last year JensOn did quite well. He qualified at the front of the grid in a car that was quite fast over a few laps, he just about twice outscored his teammate (and former WDC runner up), he won a race and outscored the field over the final part of the season. These are facts, not opinions.

You're basically saying that this equates to proving conclusively that he doesn't have what it takes to be WDC.

riiiiiiiight.

that may be your opinion, but forgive me if in future I don't immediately assume that youre opinions are correct or unbiased. And i did say sorry for the succinct summary of my reply.
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