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Could Webber win a WDC?; Where did he go wrong.
Topic Started: Feb 11 2007, 03:46 PM (940 Views)
Monty
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Penelope Pitstop,Feb 12 2007
02:37 PM
Paul_Murtagh,Feb 12 2007
02:18 PM
You have to question Webber's ability against strong team-mates though.
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Yet come 2005 when he was put up against Nick Heidfeld, Nick was by far the stronger driver earning a pole and 3 podiums to Mark's single podium at Monaco, where Nick finished above him.

I think DC will beat Mark because all but one of Mark's team-mates were rookies, and the one that wasn't (Heidfeld) was able to put in a far better showing than Mark.

Is this the same season in which Mark beat Nick by 36 points to 28?

I know you might argue that Nick didn't finish the season for Williams but Nick's previous six races netted only 3 points.

So I don't think that one could fairly say that Nick was "by far the stronger driver"

Nick *may* have had the edge, but in reality, that's about it.

What were their respective qualifying positions? Is this a measure of ability to stay out of trouble or of pace?

When Nick had that accident he was 28-24 ahead so yes he was the stronger driver.
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Monty
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safc_fan89,Feb 12 2007
02:35 PM
Minus engine pen, 2-1. I await your excuses after this season...you're just as bad as Saint is with Button roflmao

lol, its the truth though it will go down in the records as 2-1 DC <rolleyes>
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dcoulthard19
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Quote:
 
lol, its the truth though it will go down in the records as 2-1 DC


and as some certain people state saturday afternoon isn't a fair time to compare drivers as points are handed out on sunday and in china DC beat Doooooooooorbos in the race and the other two races DC had gearbox failure which you can't really blame him for.

anyway I have to go for a while, DC202, you can hold the fort in the debate whilst I am gone. <thumbs>
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safc_fan89
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DavidColthard202,Feb 12 2007
02:40 PM
safc_fan89,Feb 12 2007
02:35 PM
Minus engine pen, 2-1. I await your excuses after this season...you're just as bad as Saint is with Button roflmao

lol, its the truth though it will go down in the records as 2-1 DC <rolleyes>

Yeah and Raikkonen's pole lap at Monza in 2005 goes down as a Montoya pole...but not in my mind ;)
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Monty
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dcoulthard19,Feb 12 2007
02:44 PM


anyway I have to go for a while, DC202, you can hold the fort in the debate whilst I am gone. <thumbs>

wil do :D
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Monty
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safc_fan89,Feb 12 2007
02:45 PM
DavidColthard202,Feb 12 2007
02:40 PM
safc_fan89,Feb 12 2007
02:35 PM
Minus engine pen, 2-1. I await your excuses after this season...you're just as bad as Saint is with Button roflmao

lol, its the truth though it will go down in the records as 2-1 DC <rolleyes>

Yeah and Raikkonen's pole lap at Monza in 2005 goes down as a Montoya pole...but not in my mind ;)

Im sure you arent going to remember who out qualified who though at a back of the grid team. How about we compare Liuzzis time against DC. <cool>
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Paul_Murtagh
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Without meaning to weigh into this debate, but isn't this thread about Webber?

I just feel that Webber has struggled against experienced team-mates in the past:

2002:

Webber (17 races) - 2 points
Yoong (15 races) - 0 points
Davidson (2 races) - 0 points

2003:

Webber (16 races) - 17 points
Pizzonia (11 races) - 0 points
Wilson (5 races) - 1 point

2004:

Webber (18 races) - 7 points
Klien (18 races) - 3 points

2005:

Webber (19 races) - 36 points
Heidfeld (14 races) - 28 points
Pizzonia (5 races) - 2 points

2006:

Webber (18 races) - 7 points
Rosberg (18 races) - 4 points

If you notice, Mark has out-scored his team-mates every year BUT Heidfeld was the only one who had previous F1 experience and had out-scored him in the same number of races. Plus there has only been two seasons where Webber's team-mate has competed in the same amount of grand prix as Mark. I just feel he has yet to prove himself and hasn't done enough to warrant a top-line drive yet similar to Raikkonen did at Sauber or Alonso did at Minardi
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safc_fan89
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That would be pointless though. To be fair to Liuzzi he wasn't given a proper go against DC in 2005...for some reason Klien was given 15 races to Liuzzi's 4. Still can't work out why.
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Paul_Murtagh
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safc_fan89,Feb 12 2007
02:57 PM
That would be pointless though. To be fair to Liuzzi he wasn't given a proper go against DC in 2005...for some reason Klien was given 15 races to Liuzzi's 4. Still can't work out why.

I think that still confuses everyone, especially when both drivers were given identical contracts
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Monty
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safc_fan89,Feb 12 2007
02:57 PM
That would be pointless though. To be fair to Liuzzi he wasn't given a proper go against DC in 2005...for some reason Klien was given 15 races to Liuzzi's 4. Still can't work out why.

because in the 4 races they done together DC outqualified him 4-0, and DC scored 6 points to Liuzzis one and this could have been doubled if DC hadnt been run into by Shumi at monaco.
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safc_fan89
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Maybe...but it's not DC's 2005 form that is under scrutiny from me, I think he drove excellently that year. I don't think the same can be said for last season. Perhaps it was a blip, perhaps it was that he's too old, we won't know until we see what happens this season.
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Penelope Pitstop
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DavidColthard202,Feb 12 2007
02:39 PM

When Nick had that accident he was 28-24 ahead so yes he was the stronger driver.


I still don't think that 4 points makes a "far stronger driver".

And I notice you sidestepped my question about qualifying. What is more I think you did so because it tells a rather different story to yours .....

So lets have a little look and undercover what it is you are hiding shall we? You naughty little monkey ......

Average grid position / Drivers 2005

In 2005 Mark Webber average qualifying position was 7,895 compared to Heidfeld at 8,933.

That's an average of 1 place on the grid.

Average Gap to Pole / Drivers 2005

Mark had an average gap to pole of 1.591 compared to Nick 1,924. An average qualifyng lap of 0.4 seconds faster.

Which is a country mile!

So, I think your 4 points are more a measure of Nick's ability to stay out of trouble than of Mark's pace.

But the statistics on balance would, in my opinion, suggest that Mark is "by far the quicker driver".
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safc_fan89
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It's this case of carefully selecting the stat that makes your driver look good. As you say, 4 points is nothing...Webber scored only 3 points more than Rosberg this season but should have scored around 20 more, was it not for all the reliability woes.
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Monty
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Penelope Pitstop,Feb 12 2007
03:16 PM
DavidColthard202,Feb 12 2007
02:39 PM

When Nick had that accident he was 28-24 ahead so yes he was the stronger driver.


I still don't think that 4 points makes a "far stronger driver".

And I notice you sidestepped my question about qualifying. What is more I think you did so because it tells a rather different story to yours .....

So lets have a little look and undercover what it is you are hiding shall we? You naughty little monkey ......

Average grid position / Drivers 2005

In 2005 Mark Webber average qualifying position was 7,895 compared to Heidfeld at 8,933.

That's an average of 1 place on the grid.

Average Gap to Pole / Drivers 2005

Mark had an average gap to pole of 1.591 compared to Nick 1,924. An average qualifyng lap of 0.4 seconds faster.

Which is a country mile!

So, I think your 4 points are more a measure of Nick's ability to stay out of trouble than of Mark's pace.

But the statistics on balance would, in my opinion, suggest that Mark is "by far the quicker driver".

It wasnt my story it was Paul who said Heidfeld was far stronger, he wasnt but Nick just shaded it because he was more consistent.
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safc_fan89
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Well that 4 points can be made up from Fisichella needlessly taking Webber off at Malaysia...
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