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Could BMW be a threat?
Topic Started: Feb 9 2007, 11:39 AM (381 Views)
safc_fan89
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safc_fan89
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Felipe Massa has been quoted on autosport as saying that he thinks BMW and not Mclaren, are setting the pace in testing right now.

What he is saying *is* true I guess, but all the teams are doing it, to try and put pressure on the opposition.

It would certainly make things a lot more interesting should BMW have made a car that could challenge at the front...
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dcoulthard19
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At the moment everyone is a threat if you read every single website or magazine about motorsport out there.

Although seriously BMW do look good but people can't get carried away by that session yestersday as it was in the wet. In the dry sessions Kubica has been very consistent in all the tests so that looks pretty good.

I am still sticking to my guns on mclaren and renault being the top two teams at the moment come the start of the season.
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everythingoes
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What Massa actually said was that irrespective of their topping the time-sheets in the wet yesterday, he's been impressed with the pace BMW have managed to maintain consistently even on their long runs. Not just quick over a lap or two, but quick over many laps.
I do think BMW can be there and there abouts, but ultimately it will be the big boys who will take the wins. Thats why I also think Kubica has a pretty decent chance of sneaking a win, if he gets lucky in a race.
Then again, BMW could just be doing a Honda on us <doh>
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Monty
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It a bit to early to say but the car is definetely quick and looks about as good as the renault, Mclaren are the pace setters for the moment but i feel ferrari have something more and it wouldnt surprise me if they turn up in Austrailia and take a 1-2.
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John
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Much as I would love them to be... it is wholly unrealistic in only their second year to be challenging the top step...


I will gladly settle for regular podiums and dare I say it a win or two....
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Monty
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John,Feb 9 2007
02:30 PM
Much as I would love them to be... it is wholly unrealistic in only their second year to be challenging the top step...


I will gladly settle for regular podiums and dare I say it a win or two....

I dont see why not John if they get lucky like Honda at Hungary last year they could well be on the top step, otherwise i think they will be on the podium fairly consistently.
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The Saint
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I plan to compile a complete breakdown of the race at Hungaroring and post it on here sometime in the future. Honda put forward the BEST wet weather/hungry package and won.
The was nothing lucky about it. The Button/Honda package was the best on the day, and in the wet, the fastest too.

As far as BWM are concerned, I think it is far too early to tell. Remember that after on race last year everyone was shouting at how Nico Rosberg was the best thing since those nifty ring pulls on cans that stay on the can! By mid season, he looked ordinary. I’m not saying they will not be a threat, though I am doubtful, just that it is too early to tell.
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Monty
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The Saint,Feb 9 2007
04:02 PM
I plan to compile a complete breakdown of the race at Hungaroring and post it on here sometime in the future. Honda put forward the BEST wet weather/hungry package and won.
The was nothing lucky about it. The Button/Honda package was the best on the day, and in the wet, the fastest too.

As far as BWM are concerned, I think it is far too early to tell. Remember that after on race last year everyone was shouting at how Nico Rosberg was the best thing since those nifty ring pulls on cans that stay on the can! By mid season, he looked ordinary. I’m not saying they will not be a threat, though I am doubtful, just that it is too early to tell.

Well i can think of several lucky reasons

1-it was raining
2-Alonso crashed out, when the pitstops had shaken out he would have been in the lead
3-the safety car bunched the pack, otherwise he would have been to far behind
4-his smoooooooooooooooooooth driving style <blink>

To be fastest you need to have the fastest lap, just ask Shumi, Raikkonen and Alonso <thumbs>

Im not saying he didnt deserve it but those are facts.
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Rob
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The Saint,Feb 9 2007
10:02 AM
I plan to compile a complete breakdown of the race at Hungaroring and post it on here sometime in the future. Honda put forward the BEST wet weather/hungry package and won.
The was nothing lucky about it. The Button/Honda package was the best on the day, and in the wet, the fastest too.

I would say Honda (specifically Button) put together the best changing weather package. Alonso dominated is the sopping wet, but when the line dried out, Button was the man.

I don't know why I needed to post that, other than to agree that Button's win was not luck. Honda/Button were simply better prepared for what the day had in store.

I know I have said it many times, but Jenson was no more lucky in Hungary than Alonso was in all of 05.
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Rob
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Back on the topic, BMW has looked impressive in testing the past week, but winning a WDC is a lot more than a week of testing. I don't think the big 3 are focusing on BMW as a major title threat, at least not this year.

I know you should never underestimate your competition, and BMW will throw a few kinks into the works before Brazil, but I wouldn't count on them being in the fight for the top spot.
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The Saint
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DavidColthard202,Feb 9 2007
04:19 PM
The Saint,Feb 9 2007
04:02 PM
I plan to compile a complete breakdown of the race at Hungaroring and post it on here sometime in the future. Honda put forward the BEST wet weather/hungry package and won.
The was nothing lucky about it. The Button/Honda package was the best on the day, and in the wet, the fastest too.

As far as BWM are concerned, I think it is far too early to tell. Remember that after on race last year everyone was shouting at how Nico Rosberg was the best thing since those nifty ring pulls on cans that stay on the can! By mid season, he looked ordinary. I’m not saying they will not be a threat, though I am doubtful, just that it is too early to tell.

Well i can think of several lucky reasons

1-it was raining
2-Alonso crashed out, when the pitstops had shaken out he would have been in the lead
3-the safety car bunched the pack, otherwise he would have been to far behind
4-his smoooooooooooooooooooth driving style <blink>

To be fastest you need to have the fastest lap, just ask Shumi, Raikkonen and Alonso <thumbs>

Im not saying he didnt deserve it but those are facts.

Those are the facts as you perceive them, but that does not make them facts.
1/ How does the fact that it was raining make the win lucky? I would have though that Honda and Button should be applauded for putting together the best wet weather package.
2/ Alonso crashed out behind Button and Button was a lot faster than Alonso. When Fernando swapped to slicks, the intermediates were still the faster tire. The slicks only took the advantage later in the race. Button was fueled to the end and did not need to stop again. It was entirely probable that Button could have built up enough of a lead as to ensure when the slick advantage did kick in, he had enough of a gap. It was also possible that Button could have built up a big enough gap on inters, to be able to pit and come out ahead of Alonso. The lap time advantage that Honda had was clear for all to see.
3/ The safety car did not give Button the advantage that you think it did, and to be honest I cannot remember why, I just remember that when I watched the DVD at Xmas I recall noting that it did not, and I had a good answer to people like you when you say the safety car helped Button. I know that sounds lame, but sitting in my office at work, that is the truth and the best I can do. You will have to wait for my race analysis which I intend to do soon.
4/ The sarcastic 'smooth' comment makes your bias apparent. I know we have had this discussion before so I feel there is nothing to gain by either of us in taking that further.

If Schumacher, Alonso or Raikkonen wins in the rain they are the rain meisters, when Button does he is lucky!
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dcoulthard19
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Button did a brilliant race, he was in a poor grid position, did some great clean overtaking maneovres in the first section of the race and didnt make a mistake throughout the whole GP which the same couldn't be said for Kimi and michael.

He was on top in every condition that race threw up and it speak volumes, winning a race in the wet isn't easy, its very difficult to race in those conditions so just the fact that it rained doesn't make the win lucky at all.

Button has often been great in wet races, even in his first year he drove brilliantly in the rain at Hockenheim to fight for 4th place. He did well in Belgium 2005, and did a good race at China 2006 despite being on poor tyres for one stint of the race.
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Monty
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For a start Button was NOT fuelled to the end he stopped twice when Alonso only needed to stop once, check out the race details. As you said Alonso went onto dries not as fast as the inters at the time but by the end of the race the dries were a couple of seconds a lap faster and Button was never so much faster than Alonso on the different tyres that he could build a 20 second gap in 10 laps im afraid.

So in that paragraph shows that it was all there for Alonso, Button had to stop twice to his once.

The safety car definetely helped before this Button was half a minute off the race lead so i dont understand how you can say that didnt help <pissed>

We have indeed had this discussion before and there is bias on both sides which makes it hard to come to an agreement, but your "analysis" wont chance my mind bud.
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Rob
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The Saint,Feb 9 2007
11:03 AM
3/ The safety car did not give Button the advantage that you think it did, and to be honest I cannot remember why, I just remember that when I watched the DVD at Xmas I recall noting that it did not, and I had a good answer to people like you when you say the safety car helped Button. I know that sounds lame, but sitting in my office at work, that is the truth and the best I can do. You will have to wait for my race analysis which I intend to do soon.

To back up Saint a little here (not like he needs it) but if this were the first time in the history of F1 a Safety Car was used in a wet race, then one might have a case for luck, but I seem to remember SCs at Brazil 03, Spa 05 (was there one in China 06?).

My point is SCs are NOT irregular during wet races, it is part of the game. EVERY team had to deal with the SC, not just Alonso. If Alonso was unlucky with the SC in Hungary he was lucky with it in Turkey.

It is no different that if we had a very hot race, and Driver A chose a soft compound tire and ran his tires out in two laps and Driver B who had a harder compound was able to fast long runs and win.
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Monty
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dcoulthard19,Feb 9 2007
05:12 PM
and did a good race at China 2006 despite being on poor tyres for one stint of the race.

I seem to remember he destroyed his tyres in the first stint with pushing to hard, and only got 4th because of Satos stupidity. <cool>
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