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Where To Find Real Facts Rather Than Alternative Facts
Topic Started: Aug 9 2018, 04:44 PM (312 Views)
Catseye3
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Fulla-Carp
https://www.forbes.com/sites/berlinschoolofcreativeleadership/2017/02/01/10-journalism-brands-where-you-will-find-real-facts-rather-than-alternative-facts/#3f7dbc03e9b5
Longer article here, including a brief blurb under each listing, but cutting to the chase, here is his list of reliable and ethical news outlets:

1. New York Times
2. Wall Street Journal
3. Washington Post
4. BBC
5. The Economist
6. The New Yorker
7. Wire Services: AP, Reuters, Bloomberg
8. Foreign Affairs
9. The Atlantic
10. Politico

"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." -- Catherine Aird
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Only way is to research and think for one's self.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Catseye3
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Fulla-Carp
Aqua Letifer
Aug 9 2018, 04:48 PM
Only way is to research and think for one's self.

Yeah, but there's too much to know and only so many hours in the day. At least with a list like this one, you know you're in the right neighborhood. You can branch out from there.
"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." -- Catherine Aird
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
A list like this one? It was an opinion piece that didn't actually offer any evidence, just statement of facts as opposed to actual facts.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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George K
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Finally
The New York Times:
Quote:
 
Fake news from the New York Times

The New York Times breathlessly reports: “President Admits Focus of Trump Tower Meeting Was Getting Dirt on Clinton.” But in portraying this “admission” as news, the Times is playing fast and loose with the English language. In the process, it is dishing out fake news.

What Trump acknowledged was that “this was a meeting to get information on an opponent.” In other words, the purpose of holding the meeting, from the Trump team’s perspective, was to get negative information about Hillary Clinton. The focus of the meeting was on what the participants actually talked about. Thus, the focus and the purpose might be two different things. In this instance, they appear to have been different.

It isn’t news that the purpose of the meeting with the Russian lawyer was to get negative information about Clinton. This has been the president’s position all along. More than a year ago, he tweeted: “Most politicians would have gone to a meeting like the one Don jr attended in order to get info on an opponent. That’s politics!” (Emphasis added) This is almost identical in relevant part to today’s tweet which states in full:
Quote:
 
Fake News reporting, a complete fabrication, that I am concerned about the meeting my wonderful son, Donald, had in Trump Tower. This was a meeting to get information on an opponent, totally legal and done all the time in politics – and it went nowhere. I did not know about it!
Thus, the Times’ suggestion that there’s something new here is, in a real sense, fake news. It’s manufactured.

And manufactured for a purpose. The Times wants to keep up its Russia-related anti-Trump drumbeat. If recycling old stories and trying to pass them off as news is required, the Times will oblige happily.

To make it looks like there’s something new here, the Times cites old statements, not by President Trump but by members of his team, that the meeting focused on subjects other than opposition research. Here, as I suggested above, the Times conflates the purpose of a meeting with its focus. The fact that Donald Trump Jr. attended a meeting with Russians for the purpose of obtaining dirt on Hillary Clinton is not inconsistent with claims that the actual focus of the meeting was on other matters.

Indeed, that’s been the Trump team’s story. Donald Trump Jr. and Jared Kushner expected to get dirt (and would have “loved” to, as Trump Jr. said) but instead the Russians talked about other matters — sanctions and adoptions. These other matters were the focus of the meeting, though not the original purpose from the Trump team’s perspective. When it became obvious that the focus of the meeting would not be on Hillary Clinton, Trump Jr. quickly lost interest and the meeting ended soon thereafter.

Thus, the purported disconnect between President Trump’s tweets and statements by others on his team does not exist. Claims to the contrary are fake news.

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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

"There are 57 different genders, but politics is binary."
- David Burge, 7/29/18
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Atlantic. And New Yorker? Please.
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there's a gun around, I want to be controlling it." Clint Eastwood, Pink Cadillac
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George K
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Finally
Mikhailoh
Aug 9 2018, 05:29 PM
Atlantic. And New Yorker? Please.
In fairness, I don't think most people consider them to be a "news" source as opposed to an "opinion" source.

At least, I don't.

But, I might be wrong, of course.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

"There are 57 different genders, but politics is binary."
- David Burge, 7/29/18
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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
Thanks for posting that info George. I was pretty sure that was what I understood from the get go - the meeting was in hopes of getting dirt on Clinton, but (allegedly) all the woman wanted to talk about was Russian adoptions (and maybe later they admitted she wanted to talk about dropping sanctions).

I am sorry to say that most larger, national media outlets do not seem to me to be reporting objective information.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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Catseye3
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Fulla-Carp
Luke's Dad
Aug 9 2018, 05:21 PM
A list like this one? It was an opinion piece that didn't actually offer any evidence, just statement of facts as opposed to actual facts.
Most of the pubs on the list are common knowledge.

How would you construct such a list without opinion?
"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." -- Catherine Aird
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Catseye3
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Fulla-Carp
George K
Aug 9 2018, 05:32 PM
Mikhailoh
Aug 9 2018, 05:29 PM
Atlantic. And New Yorker? Please.
In fairness, I don't think most people consider them to be a "news" source as opposed to an "opinion" source.

At least, I don't.

But, I might be wrong, of course.

But they often provide background that you need to form your own opinion -- the kind of depth that headlines don't always provide. That's why I like them.

And Atlantic and New Yorker have excellent writers.

"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." -- Catherine Aird
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Give me a total number of retractions they've printed. List where they print those retractions. Fired reporters for manufacturing stories? Give me names and dates. Give me evidence of their fact checking.

He offered no evidence except anecdotal to back up his claims.

The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Catseye3
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Fulla-Carp
Luke's Dad
Aug 9 2018, 05:58 PM
Give me a total number of retractions they've printed. List where they print those retractions. Fired reporters for manufacturing stories? Give me names and dates. Give me evidence of their fact checking.

He offered no evidence except anecdotal to back up his claims.



Fine, then don't read them.
"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." -- Catherine Aird
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Copper
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Shortstop
Catseye3
Aug 9 2018, 04:44 PM


3. Washington Post


I read the post every day.

The disdain, derision, scorn and blatant hatred they have displayed with their twisted stories about Mr. Trump over the last 3 years is undeniable.

There have been several hit pieces on the op-ed page every day for years.

Don't go to the post looking for facts.

However, I will say that the baseball scores are generally accurate.

The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Horace
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HOLY CARP!!!
It's not so much about how a story is reported, as it is about what stories are covered and how much they're covered.

A lot of "journalistic integrity signaling" is devoted to self-consciously adding to reportage just how fair it is.

I'm reminded of an interview I heard last weekend on Fresh Air where a journalist "expert" on Neo-Nazis talked about their presence in the military. He was so careful to say that in fairness, neo-nazis were a minority of the military. (Thank God!)

But it's not like his expertise would be worth anything if they were a meaningless minority. And he made sure to let all the savvy listeners know that even though they were a small minority, they are potentially very dangerous and very, very real.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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George K
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Finally
Copper
Aug 9 2018, 06:02 PM
I will say that the baseball scores are generally accurate.
:lol2:
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

"There are 57 different genders, but politics is binary."
- David Burge, 7/29/18
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Luke's Dad
Aug 9 2018, 05:58 PM
Give me a total number of retractions they've printed. List where they print those retractions. Fired reporters for manufacturing stories? Give me names and dates. Give me evidence of their fact checking.

He offered no evidence except anecdotal to back up his claims.

1. Number of retractions is a poor metric in that a self-proclaimed news organization that never report any news, or one that insist on lying to the bitter end, would have printed zero retraction (and zero people fired for zero retraction).

2. In your opinion, which specific news sources are among the better ones at printing real news (as opposed to printing fake news)?
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Copper
Aug 9 2018, 06:02 PM
Catseye3
Aug 9 2018, 04:44 PM


3. Washington Post


I read the post every day.

The disdain, derision, scorn and blatant hatred they have displayed with their twisted stories about Mr. Trump over the last 3 years is undeniable.

There have been several hit pieces on the op-ed page every day for years.
Disdain, derision, scorn, blatant hatred, etc. are matters of feelings and opinion. None of these imply “fake news.” One can print an article about Hitler with disdain, derision, scorn, and blatant hatred towards Hitler and still report Hitler’s policies and actions truthfully.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Catseye3
Aug 9 2018, 05:14 PM
Aqua Letifer
Aug 9 2018, 04:48 PM
Only way is to research and think for one's self.

Yeah, but there's too much to know and only so many hours in the day. At least with a list like this one, you know you're in the right neighborhood. You can branch out from there.
How do you know that? How do we know where Forbes lies with respect to bias?

If people don't have the time to unearth facts themselves then they've no business reading at all. Being informed doesn't mean being spoonfed information from sources Forbes says is accurate.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Catseye3
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Fulla-Carp
Aqua Letifer
Aug 10 2018, 04:41 AM
How do you know that? How do we know where Forbes lies with respect to bias?

If people don't have the time to unearth facts themselves then they've no business reading at all. Being informed doesn't mean being spoonfed information from sources Forbes says is accurate.

How do we know where Forbes lies with respect to bias?
I don't know that. How the hell would I? But if I regularly read two or more sources I've reason to trust, eventually the lies/biases/etc will become apparent.

If people don't have the time to unearth facts themselves then they've no business reading at all.
Oh, come on, that's just silly.

Being informed doesn't mean being spoonfed information from sources Forbes says is accurate.
We're all spoonfed to a degree. Not everybody has the time or the smarts to sit under a tree and wait for the eureka apple to fall on his head. As with everything else in life, we do what we can.



"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." -- Catherine Aird
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Horse hockey.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
The beauty of taking two or three local papers back in the day, was when you read three stories from three different viewpoints, you probably had 60% of the Truth.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Catseye3
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Fulla-Carp
Jolly
Aug 10 2018, 05:03 AM
The beauty of taking two or three local papers back in the day, was when you read three stories from three different viewpoints, you probably had 60% of the Truth.

Funny you should mention that. I have just now discovered the book The Knowledge Illusion. The writeup says among other things, "The key to our intelligence lies in the people and things around us. We're constantly drawing on information and expertise stored outside our heads: in our bodies, our environment, our possessions, and the :rightarrow: community with which we interact."

Putting two and two together and getting . . . whatever we end up with. Maybe right, maybe wrong, maybe good enough for now but amenable to being built upon later.

We can't know beforehand what percentage of "the truth" we receive from any one source. You do the best you can with what you get.
"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." -- Catherine Aird
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Quote:
 
We're all spoonfed to a degree. Not everybody has the time or the smarts


It takes a lot less of both than what you're implying.

Quote:
 
to sit under a tree and wait for the eureka apple to fall on his head.


That's not how the process works. What you do is read a thing that says, for example, "lying bastard Donald Trump, who likes to urinate in strollers, met with China today to discuss..."

So then you hit up t3h Googs to see if there have been any instances of Trump peeing in strollers and forming a tentative conclusion from there. You can also double-check to see if Trump actually did meet with China. Both will take you about two minutes and not much mental activity.

Quote:
 
As with everything else in life, we do what we can.


If people won't take a couple of minutes to double-check a news story then they're not at all doing what they can.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Aqua Letifer
Aug 10 2018, 05:25 AM
Quote:
 
We're all spoonfed to a degree. Not everybody has the time or the smarts


It takes a lot less of both than what you're implying.

Quote:
 
to sit under a tree and wait for the eureka apple to fall on his head.


That's not how the process works. What you do is read a thing that says, for example, "lying bastard Donald Trump, who likes to urinate in strollers, met with China today to discuss..."

So then you hit up t3h Googs to see if there have been any instances of Trump peeing in strollers and forming a tentative conclusion from there. You can also double-check to see if Trump actually did meet with China. Both will take you about two minutes and not much mental activity.

Quote:
 
As with everything else in life, we do what we can.


If people won't take a couple of minutes to double-check a news story then they're not at all doing what they can.
Nobody has that kind of time. Yes, I can see checking some, but knowing some of the huge mistakes made by the local news, I doubt the majors do a whole lot better.

Believe almost nothing you hear, half of what you see and a small percentage of what you read.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Check the ones you want to be right about. It's either that, or this dilemma: delude yourself or doubt your own beliefs.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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