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I wonder about some people...
Topic Started: Jul 12 2018, 06:37 AM (158 Views)
Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
I was just reading someone's usual anti-Trump littany list and part of the criticism was the partial dismantling of Obamacare, and the absolute horror that the Administration is looking at Medicare and Social Security.

Folks, Obamacare was unsustainable. Period.

And right now, we are starting at Medicare being unsustainable in less than ten years. A bit further out for Social Security.

What do these folks want a President, any President to do? We have more people riding in the wagon than pulling the wagon, and more people piling in the wagon everyday. The money is not there, unless we have growth, but the same people who rail against cuts are the same people who are against deregulation for business ( energy and agriculture, etc.) or some way to Rev the economy up.

Are we just destined to be another Greece, where we eventually financially implode, because some won't even contemplate reality?
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Jolly
Jul 12 2018, 06:37 AM
I was just reading someone's usual anti-Trump littany list and part of the criticism was the partial dismantling of Obamacare, and the absolute horror that the Administration is looking at Medicare and Social Security.

Folks, Obamacare was unsustainable. Period.

And right now, we are starting at Medicare being unsustainable in less than ten years. A bit further out for Social Security.

What do these folks want a President, any President to do? We have more people riding in the wagon than pulling the wagon, and more people piling in the wagon everyday. The money is not there, unless we have growth, but the same people who rail against cuts are the same people who are against deregulation for business ( energy and agriculture, etc.) or some way to Rev the economy up.

Are we just destined to be another Greece, where we eventually financially implode, because some won't even contemplate reality?
I can't speak for the litany, and I wasn't the biggest fan of Obamacare either, but I think radical changes in the health care system are affordableŚwe'd just have to readjust accordingly.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Catseye3
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Fulla-Carp
Congress needs to man up and talk turkey to the people. More representatives need to hold town meetings in their districts and stop with the Happy Days Are Here Again bullsh!t and tell the truth. There are ways to do this without sounding like an ogre. People are receptive and open to being educated, so long as they know they can trust the messenger.

Besides, the people know things are very wrong. Being educated will motivate them to eschew the attitude of, "Screw you, I got mine."

I know, I know; it won't happen. As discussed earlier, there is the belief on the Hill that an ignorant rabble is a controllable rabble.

I can dream, though.
"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." -- Catherine Aird
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Catseye3
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Fulla-Carp
Aqua Letifer
Jul 12 2018, 06:40 AM
I can't speak for the litany, and I wasn't the biggest fan of Obamacare either, but I think radical changes in the health care system are affordableŚwe'd just have to readjust accordingly.
An absolute guaranteed formula to fix the Medicare/health care mess is to, again, re-educate people to live healthfully. I won't go on; everybody knows what I'm talking about. But if everyone ratcheted way down on their unhealthful habits, the need for healthcare now and Medicare in their future would be reduced massively.

Kinda makes you wonder why it isn't being done, doesn't it?

Oh, wait. $$hucks, $$illy Me . . .
"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." -- Catherine Aird
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Personally, I think the biggest problem we have today is a dysfunctional Congress, who have abdicated their authority to the other two branches of government. Compromise is not a dirty word. Loyal opposition is not a dirty concept.

They just need to make some hard choices and do their jobs.

If not, give POTUS the line item veto, along with a Balanced Budget Amendment.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Catseye3
Jul 12 2018, 06:51 AM
An absolute guaranteed formula to fix the Medicare/health care mess is to, again, re-educate people to live healthfully. I won't go on; everybody knows what I'm talking about. But if everyone ratcheted way down on their unhealthful habits, the need for healthcare now and Medicare in their future would be reduced massively.

Kinda makes you wonder why it isn't being done, doesn't it?

$$hoot, $$illy Me . . .
My thing is, there are some freedoms we just plain don't need. Some freedoms are stupid to exercise.

Oh c'mon everybody, don't look at me like that, we already have that in place. We do not have the freedom to drive an unlicensed car without insurance. We do not have the freedom to ride a motorcycle without a helmet (in some states, anyway). We do not have the freedom to raise livestock in a townhome.

So, I don't think we should have the freedom to not plan for retirement, or not get covered by health insurance. Before you even get your paycheck, payroll should take out a government-mandated portion for health insurance and for a retirement plan, just like they do for state and local taxes. You have a job, you have a retirement plan and health insurance, end of story.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Catseye3
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Fulla-Carp
I don't disagree with anything you said*, but it has nothing to do with what I posted.

That's okay; don't worry about responding. I may have committed the sin, as an old boss of mine would say, of CIPU writing: Clear If Previously Understood. :lol:



*Well, actually I do, but that's for another thread.
"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." -- Catherine Aird
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Copper
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Shortstop
Aqua Letifer
Jul 12 2018, 06:56 AM

So, I don't think we should have the freedom to not plan for retirement, or not get covered by health insurance.

Those happen to be two freedoms that the government should not confiscate.

I think I can make better choices than the government.

Every time.

Maybe everyone can't, but I definitely want the freedom to make my own choices.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Copper
Jul 12 2018, 07:07 AM
Aqua Letifer
Jul 12 2018, 06:56 AM

So, I don't think we should have the freedom to not plan for retirement, or not get covered by health insurance.

Those happen to be two freedoms that the government should not confiscate.

I think I can make better choices than the government.

Every time.

Maybe everyone can't, but I definitely want the freedom to make my own choices.
That's not what I said, though.

I didn't say, "I don't think we should have the freedom to pick our retirement plan," I said "I don't think we should have the freedom to not plan for retirement."
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Copper
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Shortstop
Aqua Letifer
Jul 12 2018, 07:21 AM
Copper
Jul 12 2018, 07:07 AM
Aqua Letifer
Jul 12 2018, 06:56 AM

So, I don't think we should have the freedom to not plan for retirement, or not get covered by health insurance.

Those happen to be two freedoms that the government should not confiscate.

I think I can make better choices than the government.

Every time.

Maybe everyone can't, but I definitely want the freedom to make my own choices.
That's not what I said, though.

I didn't say, "I don't think we should have the freedom to pick our retirement plan," I said "I don't think we should have the freedom to not plan for retirement."

OK, as long as one option is to do whatever you want and it is none of the government's business.

And how many government employees will be needed to manage that?

The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
The problem with allowing somebody to do whatever they want, if whatever they want happens to be doing absolutely nothing, is that everybody else ends up paying for their "freedom".

Unfortunately, it's the reality that some people really do need somebody else to sort this sh!t out for them.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Copper
Jul 12 2018, 07:28 AM
OK, as long as one option is to do whatever you want and it is none of the government's business.

And how many government employees will be needed to manage that?

However many we can pull out of the defense budget. Shouldn't be too many in terms of percentage since we already throw assloads into it.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
John D'Oh
Jul 12 2018, 07:32 AM
The problem with allowing somebody to do whatever they want, if whatever they want happens to be doing absolutely nothing, is that everybody else ends up paying for their "freedom".

Unfortunately, it's the reality that some people really do need somebody else to sort this sh!t out for them.
Yeah, that's really what I was getting at. Pick your option, but 'nothing' is not an option because that's retarded and that particular right hurts not only yourself, but everyone else.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Copper
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Shortstop
Aqua Letifer
Jul 12 2018, 07:41 AM
John D'Oh
Jul 12 2018, 07:32 AM
The problem with allowing somebody to do whatever they want, if whatever they want happens to be doing absolutely nothing, is that everybody else ends up paying for their "freedom".

Unfortunately, it's the reality that some people really do need somebody else to sort this sh!t out for them.
Yeah, that's really what I was getting at. Pick your option, but 'nothing' is not an option because that's retarded and that particular right hurts not only yourself, but everyone else.

The thing is that the default action by the government should always be nothing.

Unless specifically granted by the people the government has no powers at all.

It is not the other way around.

That is clearly one of the beauties of this country.

Of course over time we have granted a lot of power.

The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Copper
Jul 12 2018, 08:39 AM
The thing is that the default action by the government should always be nothing.
Well, that would certainly explain the state of the roads.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
John D'Oh
Jul 12 2018, 07:32 AM
The problem with allowing somebody to do whatever they want, if whatever they want happens to be doing absolutely nothing, is that everybody else ends up paying for their "freedom".

Unfortunately, it's the reality that some people really do need somebody else to sort this sh!t out for them.
Call me harsh, but there are cases where I don't mind myself or other people suffering from making bad mistakes...Lessons earned are lessons learned, even if it's for the next generation.

Give me the freedom to make mistakes, please.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Jolly
Jul 12 2018, 11:20 AM
John D'Oh
Jul 12 2018, 07:32 AM
The problem with allowing somebody to do whatever they want, if whatever they want happens to be doing absolutely nothing, is that everybody else ends up paying for their "freedom".

Unfortunately, it's the reality that some people really do need somebody else to sort this sh!t out for them.
Call me harsh, but there are cases where I don't mind myself or other people suffering from making bad mistakes...Lessons earned are lessons learned, even if it's for the next generation.

Give me the freedom to make mistakes, please.
Not when your mistakes screw me over financially.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Aqua Letifer
Jul 12 2018, 11:21 AM
Jolly
Jul 12 2018, 11:20 AM
John D'Oh
Jul 12 2018, 07:32 AM
The problem with allowing somebody to do whatever they want, if whatever they want happens to be doing absolutely nothing, is that everybody else ends up paying for their "freedom".

Unfortunately, it's the reality that some people really do need somebody else to sort this sh!t out for them.
Call me harsh, but there are cases where I don't mind myself or other people suffering from making bad mistakes...Lessons earned are lessons learned, even if it's for the next generation.

Give me the freedom to make mistakes, please.
Not when your mistakes screw me over financially.
Thank you for paying...
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Aqua Letifer
Jul 12 2018, 11:21 AM
Jolly
Jul 12 2018, 11:20 AM
John D'Oh
Jul 12 2018, 07:32 AM
The problem with allowing somebody to do whatever they want, if whatever they want happens to be doing absolutely nothing, is that everybody else ends up paying for their "freedom".

Unfortunately, it's the reality that some people really do need somebody else to sort this sh!t out for them.
Call me harsh, but there are cases where I don't mind myself or other people suffering from making bad mistakes...Lessons earned are lessons learned, even if it's for the next generation.

Give me the freedom to make mistakes, please.
Not when your mistakes screw me over financially.
See, that's the problem with going too far left illustrated in two sentences. It necessarily turns into totalitarianism. It's not an accident.

I for one think that the freedom to harm oneself is maybe the most fundamental of all.

Also, one of the rare cases where I fully agree with Jolly :lol2:

Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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