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“Be it resolved, what you call political correctness, I call progress” - the Munk debate
Topic Started: May 20 2018, 03:39 AM (322 Views)
George K
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Finally
Two hours: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxYimeaoea0&feature=youtu.be&ab_channel=Truthspeak



"Canadian psychologist Jordan Peterson and British actor and activist Stephen Fry take on American blogger Michelle Goldberg and American political commentator and academic Michael Eric Dyson in a fiery debate on political correctness in modern society."
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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George K
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Finally
Wow. What a discussion.

If you watch nothing else, go to 1:08, where "white privilege" is discussed. Michael Dyson calls Peterson a "mean, mad white man." Peterson's response is amazing.
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
He just got to the heart of the matter - for whoever that black guy was it was not a debate, but an opportunity to spew his own hatred.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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George K
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Finally
Steven Fry: "We have lost the ability to play gracefully with ideas."
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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George K
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Finally
Comments at Althouse:

Quote:
 
Ann Althouse said...
Peterson looks too thin to me. He's hardly an ideal male specimen. I think it works that he seems like of rabbity and weird and fingers his wedding ring insanely, because when he ultimately gets some point out, you're wowed. He creates lowish expectations, then wallops.

What I saw of Dyson was ridiculous. He shows up in an comically undersized suit jacket, he chastises Peterson for talking about minorities as if they are nothing more than group members, then seconds later lashes out at Peterson for his membership in the white group. Also what's up with Dyson's mannered pronunciation? Who pronounces the word "says" as if it rhymes with "days"?
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Just finished watching. The biggest takeaway by far for me is that the left is coming out of the woods. Fry's absolutely no righty, but he's criticizing the radical left all the same. (And in such an "Oxford manner" if I dare say, to quote him directly; simply wonderful to listen to. Then again I'm a big Fry fan.)

And just last week I heard Bill Maher—Bill Maher!—claim that these days, he'd never step foot on a college campus for standup because they're full of "emotional hemophiliacs."

Absolutely more of this kind of criticism needs to happen.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Stephen Fry is one of my heroes. He is what liberals were supposed to be, before the word got hijacked, mostly, it has to be said, by Americans.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
John D'Oh
May 21 2018, 02:46 PM
Stephen Fry is one of my heroes. He is what liberals were supposed to be, before the word got hijacked, mostly, it has to be said, by Americans.
I think they've moved on to "Progressives".
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Jolly
May 21 2018, 02:57 PM
John D'Oh
May 21 2018, 02:46 PM
Stephen Fry is one of my heroes. He is what liberals were supposed to be, before the word got hijacked, mostly, it has to be said, by Americans.
I think they've moved on to "Progressives".
The word was hijacked as much by American "conservatives" as it was by the American left.

Fry calls himself a liberal in this debate, and that's really what he is.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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sue
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HOLY CARP!!!
George K
May 21 2018, 05:21 AM
Comments at Althouse:

Quote:
 
Ann Althouse said...
Peterson looks too thin to me. He's hardly an ideal male specimen. I think it works that he seems like of rabbity and weird and fingers his wedding ring insanely, because when he ultimately gets some point out, you're wowed. He creates lowish expectations, then wallops.

What I saw of Dyson was ridiculous. He shows up in an comically undersized suit jacket, he chastises Peterson for talking about minorities as if they are nothing more than group members, then seconds later lashes out at Peterson for his membership in the white group. Also what's up with Dyson's mannered pronunciation? Who pronounces the word "says" as if it rhymes with "days"?
I've no idea who Ann Althouse is, but she has no business discussing a debate. What a crock of fluff.
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sue
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HOLY CARP!!!
from cbc website
Quote:
 
Problems with political correctness
Fry was in Toronto on Friday for the Spring 2018 Munk Debate at Roy Thomson Hall, paired up with controversial University of Toronto professor Jordan Peterson in a debate over the state of political correctness.

Prior to the debate, Fry discussed his views on political correctness with Ormiston.

He says political correctness has evolved to a point where it's no longer achieving the goals of the people who passionately promote it.

"If you want to advance the causes that I would like to advance, in terms of inclusion and diversity and equality for everyone ... the wrong way to do it is to alienate those who are a little bit on the edge and aren't quite sure, by telling them they're speaking wrong, they're using the wrong language, they can't talk like that."


check out the "problems with political correctness" video

Stephen Fry explains why he's so put out by the current state of political correctness. "If you want to advance the causes that I would like to advance in terms of inclusion and diversity and equality for everyone ... the wrong way to do it is to alienate those who are a little bit on the edge and aren't quite sure." 3:21
Edited by sue, May 21 2018, 09:16 PM.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
I finally listened to this (once it became a podcast - I detest watching videos.)

First comment - it sucked. The topic is too broad so they weren't debating specific ideas. In general, the aspects of political correctness that Peterson and Fry were criticizing weren't being defended by Dyson and Goldberg, and the aspects of progress being promoted by Dyson and Goldberg weren't being criticized by Peterson and Fry. So they were talking past each other for the most part.


If the debate had a winner it was Fry.


If the debate had a loser it was me. I want my 2 hours back.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Rainman
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Fulla-Carp
jon-nyc
Jun 13 2018, 06:38 AM
I finally listened to this (once it becomes a podcast - I detest watching videos.)

First comment - it sucked. The topic is too broad so they weren't debating specific ideas. In general, the aspects of political correctness that Peterson and Fry were criticizing weren't being defended by Dyson and Goldberg, and the aspects of progress being promoted by Dyson and Goldberg weren't being criticized by Peterson and Fry. So they were talking past each other for the most part.


If the debate had a winner it was Fry.


If the debate had a loser it was me. I want my 2 hours back.
You're just a mean white man.

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jon-nyc
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Cheers
True but irrelevant. Like most of what Dyson said in the video.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Rainman
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Fulla-Carp
jon-nyc
Jun 13 2018, 09:30 AM
True but irrelevant. Like most of what Dyson said in the video.
Then you're just a mean, irrelevant white man.

:tongue:
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
jon-nyc
Jun 13 2018, 06:38 AM
I finally listened to this (once it became a podcast - I detest watching videos.)
Interesting. I find it very tiresome to listen to audio podcasts. It works much better if I see the speaker in a video. It works best if I can read it.

I watched parts of the debate a couple of weeks ago. I agree with Jon. Not the most interesting debate.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Klaus
Jun 13 2018, 11:00 AM
jon-nyc
Jun 13 2018, 06:38 AM
I finally listened to this (once it became a podcast - I detest watching videos.)
Interesting. I find it very tiresome to listen to audio podcasts. It works much better if I see the speaker in a video. It works best if I can read it.

I watched parts of the debate a couple of weeks ago. I agree with Jon. Not the most interesting debate.
Not interesting, but important.

(1) Craptons of people saw the debate.
(2) Most agreed with Fry/Peterson.

In my Master's program, it was all Foucault/Derrida/Butler, all the time. If you disagreed, you were just wrong.

It would be good to see this kind of horse**** going away.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
I'll watch it (though Jon's comments give me pause).

The dogma lives loudly within me.
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